4:13 Podcast: Can I Be a Strong Woman Who Strengthens Others? With Lisa Bevere [Episode 134]

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, 4:13'ers, I'm giving you a heads up, get out your fire extinguisher for this conversation because this girl is sparky. Lisa Bevere is here today and the woman was on fire. She is fully Italian, full of the Holy Spirit, and this conversation was full of life, insight, and encouragement. Listen, you can be a strong woman who encourages and strengthens others. And Lisa is going to show you how. And by the way, if you're a man, I promise you this conversation is for you also. So stay with us, because this will apply to you. It will give you great insight as to how you can be all that God has created you to be. So are you ready? Get set. Let's go.

KC Wright: Welcome to the 4:13 Podcast, where practical encouragement and biblical wisdom set you up to live the "I Can" life because you can do all things through Christ, who strengthens you. Now, welcome my highly caffeinated friend, who will be your caffeine for your soul and your ears, Jennifer Rothschild.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes. I lift my mug to you, my friends. I'm Jennifer here to help you be and do more than you even feel capable of as you live the "I Can" life of Philippians 4:13. Because you know the truth applies to you. You can do all things through Christ, who gives you strength. And coffee does help and this morning I have had some mushroom coffee in my mug and this morning I also made it with a pour over.

KC Wright: Oh.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes. I'm so fancy. I'm just so fancy.

KC Wright: Oh, you and your fu-fu coffee.

Jennifer Rothschild: It was really good. But that was after I had done my K cup of Verona. KC, at Christmas, you gave me some really good coffee. I still have a little left.

KC Wright: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: Dunkin' Donuts mint.

KC Wright: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: It was so good.

KC Wright: Oh, good. Well, listen, I like you, love my coffee, but you know what makes it better.

Jennifer Rothschild: What?

KC Wright: When you're drinking your coffee in a 4:13 coffee mug.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, that's true.

KC Wright: I mean, I'll never forget the Fresh Grounded Faith conference I went to and we had a limited supply of these coffee mugs and I'm being honest with you, I got a little overwhelmed. The ladies were like in attack mode. I'm like backoff, we've only got a case. They all wanted that coffee mug.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, because of what it represents and it's kind of cute.

KC Wright: Well, yeah, it's orange, but bright orange and white. And it's got our logo on the front, 4:13 Podcast. I'm drinking out of one right now. I know.

Jennifer Rothschild: And see, that's why your coffee's even more powerful. I believe we do have some left. So you know what. We will now put a link on the show notes.

KC Wright: Okay.

Jennifer Rothschild: So if you want a 4:13 coffee mug for your coffee, we will have a link right there so you can go to it. But let's get to Lisa right now, okay, and I would suggest you strengthen your coffee, fill your cup before this conversation because she is just such a dynamo. And you know what I thought after this conversation? She's such a mama bear. She really is. She's like this classic fierce, loving mama bear for younger women. And she's also determined to rally other women so that future generations can grow in wisdom and strength. I love that about her. So when you hear this, you're going to feel like you reconnected with a long lost friend. So, KC, why don't you introduce her.

KC Wright: It's so true. I love Lisa, her entire family. They have ministered to me for years. Lisa Bevere has spent nearly three decades empowering women to find their identity and purpose. She's a cancer survivor and a New York Times best-selling author. Her books include Without Rival, Lioness Arising, and her latest, Godmothers. Lisa and her husband John, co-founded Messenger International Ministries, and they are just both dynamic. So now turn up the volume and lean in and turn in your heart for this great conversation between two of my favorites, Jennifer and Lisa Bevere.

Jennifer Rothschild: Lisa, I mean, I feel like I've known you forever, even though we technically have never met. So let's go way back to when you started in ministry. Okay, because I remember long ago, I can't even remember now what show it was, it was some TV show, and they were featuring one of your products. It was on anger and I had all these sparks flying at the time. And so I got it. And I loved it. It helped me so much. And so I got to experience your ministry through some of that audio that I bought of about anger. You're teaching on anger, but you started in ministry and, you know, here you were just Lisa all by yourself. You're really not quite sure of what you're doing. And so at some point, I'm not sure exactly when, as you're writing and speaking and things are growing, you ask God for a mentor to kind of help you. So give us a picture of what your life was like, you know, what it felt like and what it and what happened when you asked God to give you a mentor to help you.

Lisa Bevere: Well, I love that you knew that I was asking for help, but I actually asked for help before I ever did any writing and speaking, because Jennifer, I came from like dysfunctional world, like we our family was doing dysfunctional long before the Kardashians figured out how to make money off of it. My grandmother believed in upgrading her husband. She was married three times, nope, take that back, four times, three husbands. My parents were divorced, remarried, divorced again. My father is one hundred percent Sicilian and all that comes with that package. And my husband and I did, like, he actually did, he did naughty dating. He invited me to a Bible study picnic. He was a Christian, I was a heathen. He had seen me in a bikini top and cut off shorts at breakfast because that's what you do when you're a heathen. I had some Daisy Dukes on that I had split up to the waistband so that everybody knew I didn't have underwear on. I don't know why I thought that was important to communicate.

So, at twenty one years of age, I heard the gospel for the first time and I got radically saved. Basically, I had begun to hate that person that I was. So I get radically saved. I'm saved for about a year and a half and I get deeply wounded by an older woman, a woman in the ministry. And in that moment, like, I would love to say, well, there was this moment where the angels appeared to me and they said, "Lisa, you are called to minister to women." That is not the dynamic that happened to me. What happened to me was I was wounded. I said, "God, I don't like women. I like men better. They mean what they say, say what they mean, and I can't believe this has happened to me. I'm going to tell everybody what she did." And God was like, "Baby girl, you start defending yourself now, you're going to do it for the rest of your life." He said you're going to step back, you're going to humble yourself, and you're going to submit to this woman and you're going to ask her to train you and teach you, because I have called you to minister to women.

Jennifer Rothschild: Wow.

Lisa Bevere: And I was like, you've got to be kidding, anybody but women. I do not like women, but God, that that was a joke. He just said nothing. And so I did go to this woman. She blessed my life. I get married. I'm pregnant with my third son. My husband tricks me into doing a woman's meeting at a Pentecostal Holiness Church. Now, I know you can't see me because we are, well, first of all, you and I both have vision challenges, but notwithstanding.

Jennifer Rothschild: But notwithstanding, yes.

Lisa Bevere: If anybody would tell you, yeah, no, this is not a good fit for Pentecostal Holiness, they would say, yeah, she has double pierced ears. She forgets to wear sleeves because she doesn't want to sweat when she preaches. I mean, like all of these things mixed together, made me a really bad package. Plus, I had done the whole I don't like women. And so my husband's like, you're going to preach tomorrow, stop arguing, stop fighting. This is happening. So you just need to make this happen. I will take the kids out to Waffle House. So he takes the two boys out. I'm left alone, large and pregnant, and I cry out to God and I said, "I told you I needed somebody in my life. I told you if you wanted me to minister to women, you need to send me somebody. You did not send me a mentor." And Jennifer, in that moment, I heard the Holy Spirit say, "For you, there will not be that woman."

Jennifer Rothschild: Mhm.

Lisa Bevere: And He said, "But that doesn't mean I'm not calling you to be that woman." And I'm like, "Is that a joke? You're asking me to be what I've never had." And He said, "Yeah," and he said, "I want you to write it backwards, write down everything you wish another woman would have been to you and you begin to be that person." And so, Jennifer, I sat down and I said, all right, she'd ask me the questions I don't want to answer. She'd tell me the things I don't want to hear. She would be by my side, not on my side, because I can be wrong. I need someone to be straight up with me, because I can be ridiculous. She would teach me to laugh at my future even when I'm crying in my moment. She would be committed to my growth. Not to just, ya know, she would just say, "Hey, I want you to know this hardship you're going through right now, it's going to actually be something that remakes you into a child of God. If you handle it correctly." She would give purpose to my suffering. She would give purpose to my pain, and she would walk alongside me. And so, you know, Jennifer, I know that you and I are close in age. I am older. I am the grandmother in this equation. But I want something more for my daughters-in-law and I want something more for the daughters. And this whole idea of being a godmother, isn't about mafia. It isn't about fairies. It's about a woman who says, "I'm going to be a motherly protector who connects you with God."

Jennifer Rothschild: Hmm. So that, you just you answered the question I would have asked, what is it, godmother? And you just explained it beautifully and how necessary it is, Lisa. I mean, this is what we're all longing for, no matter what age we are. So in your book, you talk about the gaps in the lives of women these days. And so I'm curious, what are those gaps that you perceive and why can't these gaps be filled by husbands or good books or Bible studies or whatever? Why do we need godmothers to help fill those gaps?

Lisa Bevere: Well, I love that you brought up this idea. And I want to actually define this word gap, because when I first was studying, I thought I saw the difference between the way things are and the way they should be. And that's always a gap. So you can think about a marriage gap, the difference between your marriage, the way it is right now and the way you desire it to be, the way it should be. The way your parenting is now compared to the way it could be, should be. The way your walk with God is now compared to how it could or should be. And I think we're all finding out that good things don't necessarily grow in isolation. We, we're seeing a lot of sheriff's canceling people, arresting people, and a lot of outlaws shooting people taking them captive. So we're not doing life well in isolation. We need those iron-sharpening-iron relationships and we need the older women. And it doesn't have to be, you know, like Jennifer, I'm going to be really honest, I don't know a lot about you, but I do know there would be areas in your life where you are more mature than I am, even though I've got three years on you. Those would be areas.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, that applies to everybody. Right.

Lisa Bevere: So, it doesn't have to be an age thing.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Lisa Bevere: It needs to be this is a place in my life where I have walked and I have found God to be faithful and I want to declare hope and life and promise over your life. This is a place of my marriage where I just wanted to punch my husband, where I thought, John, I will never like you again. And then I say, "God, You need to change that man." And God's like, "Lisa, tell me I'm enough for you." I'm like, we're not saying that. I'm not saying that, "Jesus, You're enough for me," because that means you're not changing that man. And in that moment when I finally break down, Jennifer, and I say, you know what Jesus, You're not just enough, You're more than enough. Something shifts in my heart. Something shifts in my husband's heart. And all of a sudden now this bitter wife who feels nothing but disappointment and neglect is now a living well. And so we want to come alongside of these women and not just say, "Oh, yeah, men are jerks or women are jerks or the church isn't healthy." We want to take something from a place of unwell to a place of wellness, and that is going to take some mommas to wake up and say, "I am tired of just being like Debra navigating y'alls conflicts. I am tired of sitting under palm trees judging. I am going to get up and I am going to prophesy and answer rather than just parrot the problem." And that's what mommas and daughters do because they care about the kids.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Lisa Bevere: They care about legacy.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right. Well, and you put it beautifully earlier, too, when you said a woman who will come and be on your side or by your side, but not always on your side, not being so dishonest in the name of love that we don't just tell the truth to each other as we walk together in honesty. So you're speaking a language that I think we we all need to be paying attention to.

I remember when I was a young mom. I was in a women's Bible study and it just so happened that the women who were in this Bible study were a few years older than me, probably almost a decade. And so they taught me so much about life, you know, like from how to do laundry, to deal with diaper rash, to trust God, to love my husband. I mean just, and it wasn't just that they sat down and gave me lectures. I just watched them do life. We had life on life and they would speak into mine. And so I think there's lots of younger women out there who feel lost in their own world. That's kind of disorienting of marriage or parenting or singleness. You know, I have some single friends, the same thing. They're navigating it all alone. So what encouragement would you have for these women who are younger and they're searching for community with other women?

Lisa Bevere: Well, I love that you honed in on that because I don't know what your demographic is. But I was shocked when I learned that who reads my books are twenty-four to thirty-five year olds.

Jennifer Rothschild: Mhm.

Lisa Bevere: And my team had told me that because they're just kind of like, this is your social media analytics. I didn't even know how to find those things, and when they told me that I just burst into tears and they're kind of like, okay, is she upset because her peers aren't reading her books? Like why is she why is she crying? And I said, these daughters are looking for a mother.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

Lisa Bevere: And it it hit me. It hit me. And so I want to say that all you have to do and, again, this makes it sound really easy. And I know it's not easy. I'm asking you something challenging is you got to be willing to take the risk of asking an older woman to come into your life. And I love that you said it wasn't, it's not going to be this 13-week, 18-week, 8-month study on how to be God's daughter. But it is doing life. Life is messy. Life is uncertain right now. There has never been a more important need for women who have known the certainty of the faithfulness of God to say in all of this mess, I will tell you what is immovable, I will tell you where your shelter is, I will tell you where your strength is, I will tell you where your refuge is. Come on over to my house and let's work on my backyard together.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Lisa Bevere: Let's go for a walk together. Let's, let's make pesto together. I'm making a big batch of pesto. Why don't you just come on over and we'll have a conversation. We need to be organic, in Colorado we can do that, you might have to wear a mask. But we again, we're a little bit less than some other things. And again, I'm not trying to say, oh, my gosh, Lisa is violating social distancing. Hey, if you need to do it on a Zoom call, do it on a Zoom call. But I am going to challenge the daughters to reach out to the older women because here's the problem. The older women think they have nothing to offer.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yep. That's true.

Lisa Bevere: They are trying to change their names to bitterness. They are like Naomi, if they've known loss, maybe they're divorced, maybe they're widowed, maybe they feel like a failure and they're like, what could I possibly add? I had so many women tell me. I don't feel like I'm worthy of adding. Well, who is?

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Lisa Bevere: I'm sorry. I haven't, you know, I don't know too many people that are like, I look at them and say, "You are so worthy." I could look at Jesus and say, "You make us worthy."

Jennifer Rothschild: That's right.

Lisa Bevere: I, you know, oh my goodness. I mean, I'm not even a Christian 'til I've drank at least three shots of espresso. So, my husband looked at me this morning, like you are so grumpy. And I was like, can you just like not talk. He's just so loud in the morning. But we need people that will say, "Okay, I'm going to ask a woman ahead of me on the path to mark a trail for me." I don't want to hear your perfection.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Lisa Bevere: I want to hear how you navigated hard stuff.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Lisa Bevere: Don't go to somebody who looks perfect. You know, first of all, there's no such thing. But, you know, and and help them draw out their goodness. And then the older women, there's goddaughters who are desperate for what you've learned the hard way and don't shut down your life, don't change your name from Naomi. Where it's beautiful and full to bitterness and empty. There is legacy in life in you as long as there is breath, God wants you to die empty, and that is not about a barren thing. That is about blessing other people's lives with the beauty and the strength of what you've learned the hard way.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, well, and I think you're taking some of the formality out of it, which is part of the intimidation. And I think we need to be mindful of that, the youngers, the olders. And like when you were even saying this, youngers and olders, you're talking about maturity, not age.

Lisa Bevere: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: And so it's just detecting the godliness, the experience in another woman and saying, "Hey, can we just have coffee? Can we do whatever together?" I love that we need to unintimidate the process and I have said even with friendship and this applies. Because I tend to be an introvert, I have to assume, I have to tell myself she's going to like me because my flesh will come up with a million reasons she wouldn't want to hang out with me or, you know, I'd be a burden or whatever. My flesh can come up with a quick list. Well, I think the same applies here. We've got to go under the assumption that if we have a need, that the person that the Lord is leading us to has a need also and our willingness to say, "Hey, let's do this." You know, you're not making a lifetime commitment and you just never know that your humility and vulnerability may be meeting a need in someone else's life. So it goes both ways. God's just not a one-sided God.

Lisa Bevere: Now, I love that you said unintimidate the process. I do think, and, Jennifer, don't you think there's a lot of people that are frozen right now? You know, they are desperate for a relationship, but they're afraid to pick up the phone.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

Lisa Bevere: They are afraid to start the conversation. They're afraid to walk down the street. And I have felt such. I don't know, such a mandate to expose that God is not watching for us to fail. I mean, you know what, I have a grandson. Hallelujah, he's finally potty trained, but I didn't get mad at him while he was potty training. I didn't say, "Really, you're trying and you're not doing this." I was thrilled he was entering into the growth process. And God is that way with His children. He's like, if you just step out in faith, believing, believing, and there's so many people that are frozen in fear. What if I miss God? What if it's my flesh? What if wanting a relationship with an older woman is just my idea? Who gave you a brain?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Lisa Bevere: Who gave you a longing for connection and community? God.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Lisa Bevere: We're acting like God is mad. He's like, I gave My son to die for you. Now I'm looking for reasons to reject you. No, that's not who God is. It's like baby girl get moving forward. If you make a mistake, it's better than not taking a step.

Jennifer Rothschild: Amen. So if a woman is looking for this kind of relationship in her life or if another woman is wondering, could I be this person, could I be a godmother, you write that they don't necessarily have to be old in age, but rather wisdom. So what kind of characteristics and qualities does a godmother possess? I mean, can you just give us a couple so that might help clarify some of the confusion that a younger might be feeling or that a potential godmother may be thinking, "Well, I'm not capable." What qualities are we looking for here?

Lisa Bevere: Well we're looking for godliness and we're looking for somebody who is not wanting to compete with somebody. So, we're looking for somebody who says, "I'm going to grow some people in an area that I wish somebody would have grown me." One of my favorite quotes is by Jill Churchill. I don't know her, I don't even know if she's alive still, but I love this quote. It says, "There is no way to be a perfect mother and a million ways to be a good one." And so what you have to do is pick those areas where you can add goodness, where God has been faithful and you can say, all right, you know what, I wish somebody would have taught me how to love a husband, how to study the Bible, how to live the Bible, because we've got a lot of people studying it that have never lived it and how to love my neighbor, how to not be wounded when I put the wrong expectation on friendships, how to be a real friend, because we're going to need some real friends in this time period. I don't know if this happened to you, but, Jennifer, I'll get hurt when I mistake a transactional relationship for a transformational one.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Lisa Bevere: Like I'll think, oh, I'm friends with her. She loves me. We're doing life together. And she's like, no, no, no. That was just when we were doing conferences together. We're not actually really friends because, you know, and again, I'm not belittling those people. I'm saying when I have an expectation on a friendship where I allowed them to wound me. Also, we have to be people that are quick to forgive. The Bible is so clear that when we come to the altar and a lot of times I think we don't understand, you know, that an altar could be on your bed, it can be in your closet, it can be wherever you meet with God. And suddenly you remember, wait, somebody is upset with me. See, I never have a problem forgetting who I'm upset with. But when I pray, I remember who's upset with me.

Jennifer Rothschild: Interesting.

Lisa Bevere: I remember my harsh words. And so a godmother would model humility and she would go to that person and she would actually maybe share that like, "Man, there's been times I thought I was so right and I was wrong." So it's somebody who opens up their life to teach others to go further and farther and it doesn't have to be an expert in every area. You don't need a degree in theology to build a beautiful godly life. So you have something to give.

Jennifer Rothschild: And it's so good. It's like drinking from a fire hydrant. It's so good. Okay, so this is our last question here, Lisa. Speaking of theology, so there's lots of us who are listening right now and there's lots of denominational backgrounds represented, okay. And so women in the church are perceived and treated differently based on different denominational teachings and traditions. Okay, so what do you want women, what do you want them to know about the role that they play in the church, no matter what kind of church they're part of?

Lisa Bevere: I want every woman to know that being a woman is not an afterthought. It is not a second-class assignment, that it is a God-breathed mandate and answer. That God saw that it was not good for man to be alone. And he said, okay, Adam alone, it's not good. He didn't say that man's not good. He said, Adam alone is not good. I am going to find that beautiful, intimate other who will take what is not good and make it so very good. I want every woman to know that God loves women. He values their contribution. He values their input. Whether they ever stand in a pulpit or not. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. You have this God-breathed mandate to speak life, to be an intimate healer.

And as I spoke at the beginning, I talked about how I didn't like women. Well, I had been wounded by women, hurt by men, but wounded by women. But what I love is if women can wound intimately, it means we can actually heal intimately. And so I want to challenge those women to begin to close the relational gaps that are in families. In a lot of ways, I feel like in men right now, Jennifer, I feel like the men have lost their way and that we as women have this ability to remind Adam that there are real battles, that we have a Savior, that his life is more than the abundance of things or the distractions that would be in front of him and that he is a warrior. You know, Jeremiah 31 verse 22, I believe it is says, "God's going to do a new thing. A woman is going to encompass a warrior." And all of the commentaries I looked at could not figure out what that was. And when I was praying into it, I felt like I saw this beautiful imagery of a man sitting dejected, wounded, oppressed, and a woman putting her arms around him and whispering in his ear and telling him who he is. And we see that with Deborah. She called forth the prince. She called forth this man and said, "Has God not said?" And I feel like that can be the role of a woman, whether it's at home or whether it's in a public forum. Nobody can take away our right to bless and build as daughters of the most high God.

KC Wright: Wow, sparky is right!

Jennifer Rothschild: I know.

KC Wright: Oh, my what. Oh my goodness, she is a strong woman of God and her passion is just infectious. You can win a copy of her latest book. It's called Godmothers: Why You Need One. How to Be One. Go to Jennifer's Insta profile @JenRothschild or go straight to the show notes at 4:13podcast.com/134 to get connected to the Instagram giveaway. And you can also get a great review of this conversation there, too. There are just so many tweet-able truth bombs, okay.

Jennifer Rothschild: It's true. It's so true. I'm such a big fan of her heart and I just love the way God has gifted her to communicate. And like you, KC, I've just been a just a follower, a fan for years. I appreciate what she's taught me. So I just love to that she's such a cheerleader for the women who are, you know, both right beside her in years and those who are behind her in years. You know, we all really do need each other and we are all in this together.

KC Wright: Yes, we are. So remember, you are not alone. Whatever you face, however you feel you can do all things through Christ, who gives you strength. I can.

Jennifer Rothschild: I can.

KC: And you can.

Jennifer Rothschild: Whoop. Whoop. All right, Lioness Arising is also one of her books. And don't you think that just like fits her personality.

KC Wright: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: Fearsome, powerful. All through the strength of Christ.

KC Wright: She's a strong woman. She's got a strong relationship with Jesus.

Jennifer Rothschild: She sure does. I've got this little lion, you know, when you walk in my house, that stone lion.

KC Wright: Yes, I love that.

Jennifer Rothschild: You know, I go and pat him every day as my reminder of strength. I call him little Haggai because he was on the set of my Haggai Bible study.

KC Wright: Ya, he's on the front cover of you new study.

Jennifer Rothschild: He is on the front cover. So we call him little Haggai. At Christmas, he wore a Santa's hat. Right now he's just sitting there bald.