4:13 Podcast: Spill the Beans LIVE with Margaret Feinberg at Fresh Grounded Faith Fargo, ND [Episode 310]

Jennifer Rothschild: Hey, this is Jennifer. I want you to meet somebody. She's my precious girl that I sponsor through Compassion International. She's a little girl from Ecuador who has no dad, but she has a Heavenly Father who is meeting her every need.

If you're like me, you can feel overwhelmed with all the needs of the world. Covid-19 has affected all of us, but it has devastated those who already live in poverty. You know, we can't do everything, but we can do one thing, and that's what Compassion International allows us to do. It's a one-on-one relationship with a child who needs you, and it releases children from poverty in Jesus' name. So go to 413podcast.com/Compassion to meet my precious girl from Ecuador. And while you're there, I invite you, I challenge you, and I encourage you to sponsor a child along with me. That's 413podcast.com/Compassion. And now it's time for some practical encouragement and some biblical wisdom on the 413.

Pack your bag, because today we are heading to Fargo, North Dakota, for a Fresh Grounded Faith. I'm sitting at the Bistro table with author and speaker Margaret Feinberg and singer-songwriter Michael O'Brien, and we are spilling the beans. We talked about how to start a habit of meeting with God. And Margaret happens to be quite the foodie, so she tells us what is on her favorite menu. And we also dealt with some very hard subjects of suicide, anger toward God, and the difference between your giftings and your callings. It was very gentle and very wise. You're going to really love that.

We also got really honest about how to forgive when you just don't want to. But even in all the hard stuff, I'm telling in you right now, this was one of the funniest conversations I have had in a long time. So get ready to think, to laugh, and to grow. We're going to Spill the Beans.

K.C. Wright: Welcome to the 4:13 Podcast, where practical encouragement and biblical wisdom set you and I up to live the "I Can" life, because -- here's truth -- you can, we can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.

Now, welcome to your host, Jennifer Rothschild.

Jennifer Rothschild: Hey, welcome. That was K.C. Wright, my Seeing Eye Guy. And it's just two friends and one topic and zero stress here in the podcast closet. So I hope that's what you're experiencing, zero stress. If not, just kind of put it on hold, press pause on your stress, and enjoy this podcast for about 30 minutes, because we are going to have such a fun, life-giving conversation with some other friends of yours, Michael O'Brien and Margaret Feinberg, who you have met before. This was, as we said earlier, from a Fresh Grounded Faith conference. And so if you've never been to one, there is one coming near you hopefully in the fall. So go to freshgroundedfaith.com to see where we're going to be. Of course, we'll also have a link on the Show Notes.

But I have got to tell you, we have had something phenomenal happen in our town this year.

K.C. Wright: Breaking news.

Jennifer Rothschild: Breaking news.

K.C. Wright: Breaking news.

Jennifer Rothschild: We got a --

K.C. Wright: Drum roll, please.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- Buc-ee's. Have you got a Buc-ee's in your town?

K.C. Wright: Have you?

Jennifer Rothschild: Because it is like -- it's not a store, it's an experience.

K.C. Wright: I know.

Jennifer Rothschild: It's not a retail establishment, it's like a moment in time.

K.C. Wright: Let me tell you, it opened up and I said, "Ellie, get in the Jeep, we're going." "Why are you dragging me to a gas station?" "Ellie, just come on. Let's go. Let's go." "Why are you bringing me to a gas station?" I'm like, "It's more than a gas station, Ellie." And then one hour later, one hour later we're sitting in my Jeep, a brisket sandwich in the left paw and a banana pudding in the right paw --

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, my gosh.

K.C. Wright: -- with a big 'ol whatever drink between your legs, you know.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, that's awesome.

K.C. Wright: And you're just getting fat and happy.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Well, that's what Buc-ee's is for. And if you've never been, like, it is giant. It's like the IKEA of, like, convenience stores. But they've got a wall of jerky.

K.C. Wright: They do.

Jennifer Rothschild: And what else?

K.C. Wright: A bakery.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, yes.

K.C. Wright: They have the bakery, they have the jerky wall, they have the fudge. And then they have in the middle where they're making the fresh brisket and their turkey sandwiches. But the pudding and all that. And then, of course, hey, if you want Christian apparel, there's a little --

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, that's true.

K.C. Wright: They should sponsor this podcast.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes, they should.

K.C. Wright: Like they need us to promote them, because we --

Jennifer Rothschild: We need them.

K.C. Wright: We hardly got in and out -- actually, Ellie walked around saying, "I'm overwhelmed. I'm actually overwhelmed."

Jennifer Rothschild: I'll bet.

K.C. Wright: It's a blessing from the Lord. It gave 200 people jobs.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, that's brilliant. I love it.

K.C. Wright: And their restrooms are wow.

Jennifer Rothschild: They are known -- okay, you out there traveling, if you're listen to the podcast right now while you're traveling, just know those are your cleanest, best restrooms, Buc-ee's. Shout out to Buc-ee's. Okay. And we who travel a lot care about this.

K.C. Wright: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: And even we who don't, who just want something to do, care about this. So if you don't have a Buc-ee's in your town, when you are near one you must go. And just -- you know, take a deep breath before you walk in. It can be overwhelming, but it is worth the overwhelm. So in Fargo -- I don't think we had one in Fargo.

But I will say this. This conversation that we had was really a fun one, K.C. But I want to warn everybody. Okay? So when this conversation starts, about two-thirds into the conversation we're about to wind down, you're going to hear this crash. That was me hitting my mic. Okay. So just so you know, that's what that was. It's not you. Your roof is not caving in.

Okay. Anyway, we're also going to have links to all of the things you're going to want to know about on the Show Notes. So anyway -- K.C., do we need to introduce them?

K.C. Wright: Not really. But, yes, like you said, we'll have the links to Margaret Feinberg and Michael O'Brien, all because we love them and we want you to dive into all things Margaret and Michael.

So pull up your chair to the Bistro. Let's Spill the Beans with Margaret, Michael, and Jennifer. Here we go.

Michael O'Brien: Okay, this is to everybody. "I struggle with getting up early in the morning. How do you make a habit of getting up and rising early in the morning to be with God?"

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, I'll just go first here with one thought. I would ask you a question. Why do you need to get up early and be with God? I'm just not sure where that...

Now, listen, there's nothing wrong with that. And if that's the way your body is wired and your schedule permits, then go for it. But there's no real formula. Being with God can be if you wake up at 9:00 AM, you know, or it can be maybe -- I like to spend just a few minutes of not intense thought in the morning. I just listen to my Dwell Bible app. I listen to Scripture. That's all I do while I drink my coffee. Try not to really think. I just try to get in his presence. But then later in the day, when I have more brainpower and I'm more into it, then I will maybe spend time with more study or devotional or spend time with the Lord like that. So I guess what I'm saying is I think we need to keep the main thing the main thing. The main thing is time with God, not what time we choose to be with God.

Even though -- you know, in Scripture it talked about rising early. And if that's the only time you can be with the Lord, then, yeah, you can get up early, and Margaret's going to tell you how you can do that. You're welcome.

Margaret Feinberg: I'm a night owl. I love staying up late. And so for those of you who are more alert at night, like, God does a pretty good job on the night watch.

Michael O'Brien: My wife used to -- with our kids, she would say, "Okay, Lord, I'm going to get up at 5:30 to be with you," because she usually would get up at 6:00. And so she would get up at 5:30, and then the kids would immediately wake up at 5:30 as well. So I do think it's a scheduling thing for us now that we're empty nesters. She's just an early riser, I'm an early riser, and that's when we get to be with the Lord. So she separately, me separately, then we come together.

But, yeah, I think there are just different patterns for different people, and you can make it work. You make time for the things that you love.

Jennifer Rothschild: That is a good word.

Michael O'Brien: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's a good -- well, and I will say this, one last thing about this. One thing that's helped me is sometimes we wait to feel a certain way before we do a certain thing, and I think there is an attribute of discipline that then becomes delight. So don't wait to feel delight, like, "Oh, I can't wait to be with the Lord," and then expect the discipline to follow. We have to trust the Lord with faithfulness at whatever time of the day and just do the discipline, and you'd be surprised then how the delight, the desire will all show up.

Michael O'Brien: Okay, Margaret. You said you were a foodie.

Jennifer Rothschild: She is.

Michael O'Brien: What's your favorite meal and what's your favorite dessert?

Margaret Feinberg: So our go-to at home is Mexican.

Jennifer Rothschild: Ooh.

Margaret Feinberg: You can put anything in a tortilla or on a bed of lettuce --

Michael O'Brien: They have Mexican food in Utah?

Margaret Feinberg: They even have roads.

Michael O'Brien: I just didn't think they did, like Mexican restaurants. Okay.

Margaret Feinberg: Yeah. And favorite dessert would probably be a flourless chocolate torte.

Jennifer Rothschild: Me too. Along with Creme Brulee.

Margaret Feinberg: Ooh.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes. Okay, I got to know yours, Michael.

Michael O'Brien: I love the Napoleon dessert. It's like a --

Margaret Feinberg: What is that?

Michael O'Brien: I don't know. It's good. It's good. It's got chocolate, white chocolate, dark chocolate, cream-filled pastry kind of a thing.

Jennifer Rothschild: Ooh.

Michael O'Brien: Yeah. It's very good.

Jennifer Rothschild: Nice.

Michael O'Brien: Okay. "God is good. How do I get Michael to come to my" -- car?

Jennifer Rothschild: Keep reading.

Michael O'Brien: Can you help me with that?

Margaret Feinberg: "To show me how to use the music stick."

Michael O'Brien: "Michael to come to my" -- what is that word?

Margaret Feinberg: Car.

Michael O'Brien: -- "car to show" --

Margaret Feinberg: He wants you to go to your car to show --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, she wants to buy your music stick.

Michael O'Brien: I thought you were making that up. Oh, the music...

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

Michael O'Brien: I'm 59 and I still don't understand the question. What is --

Jennifer Rothschild: So, Michael -- you don't want him helping you. Okay? Can I just say? He can't even understand the question.

Michael O'Brien: Oh, the thumb drive. The thumb drive.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes. The music stick, the thumb --

Michael O'Brien: What about it?

Jennifer Rothschild: They want you to come to their car and show them how to use it, Michael.

Michael O'Brien: Wow.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Well, don't ask him. Find someone under 40. Don't ask the old guy.

Michael O'Brien: Look for that little USB thing and just stick it right in there. That's all you do.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, Michael. You're 50.

Michael O'Brien: Wow. I got to let this calm down because this is a serious question that's coming.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. All right. Calm down, people. We're getting serious.

Okay, Michael, what is it?

Michael O'Brien: Okay. Are -- yeah, it is serious.

Jennifer Rothschild: It is really serious. Okay.

Michael O'Brien: Yes, it is. It's hard to come after that, so...

"Are suicidal thoughts the devil? So the devil lives in me. How to start to truly live instead of walking around dead to self and dead to others, unable to truly love?"

Jennifer Rothschild: You're right, that is very serious. That's really serious, because whoever wrote it, you matter so much and you're such a valuable, precious person. There's a couple of things there that I think we want to talk about a little bit. But know that none of us up here are professionals and we in no way could give advice not knowing your personal situation completely.

But there's a couple of things that I would think about as your sister in Christ. The nature of that question sounds like you would benefit from talking to a professional, because that sounds like depression. And suicide shouts loudly when someone is depressed. And when you're saying you're dead to others and dead and you just feel -- you got no life, that's depression. And sometimes depression -- yes, it's an emotional manifestation, but often it's because of a physical underlying condition. So you really need to value yourself enough to see a doctor. And there are people who love you, and you need to value them enough, even if you don't value yourself enough to go see a doctor.

Are suicidal thoughts of the devil? John 10:10, Jesus said, "I came to give life." Any thoughts of death are thoughts that do not come from Jesus. And so I think what Margaret just shared is such a beautiful discipline. It's not the solution only, but it is a beautiful discipline to begin to rewire your brain toward truth. You have been wired toward lies. But our deepest hope is that you would tell somebody and that would also seek professional help.

Margaret Feinberg: I think there are physical things. When our chemistry in our body is off, it can cause all kinds of things that aren't necessarily spiritual at all. Like, it's just -- you know, if all the serotonin is not rushing to your brain, that's definitely worth talking to a professional and getting medical help. Do you want your community to pray with you and pray for -- absolutely.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

Margaret Feinberg: And to be vulnerable and to share that. And what you may discover is you're not the only one who's feeling a little dead or numb inside. And to know that you're not alone in that. You are not alone.

Jennifer Rothschild: No.

Michael O'Brien: Yeah, that's just heartbreaking for me to hear that.

Jennifer Rothschild: It is hard, isn't it?

Michael O'Brien: My wife was very similar. She would be classified as bipolar, which means -- but she's more on the depressive side. And she went to counseling, which I think was very helpful. I think biblical counseling is number one because -- and drugs. She did try some different things to try to level her out. She would say she tried to just not eat and try to starve herself to death because she was so depressed. And she was angry and she was bitter because of some things in our marriage.

So all that to say, we all have different journeys that we're on. But just to hear this just makes me think -- you know, we have a tendency, when we're in depression, to run away from people. And this is the time when you need to run for help and get help. And it doesn't make you any less of a person. It just actually is Spirit led. So may this be that mark in your life that changes from this day forward --

Jennifer Rothschild: Amen.

Michael O'Brien: -- in the name of Christ.

Jennifer Rothschild: In the name of Jesus, we agree.

Michael O'Brien: Okay, Jennifer, this is for you. How do you remain positive and not angry to God for your eyesight loss?

Jennifer Rothschild: This is an interesting question to me because I've been asked it in one form or another over the years. So let me clarify this. I have a sparky personality and I do get angry. Injustice just drives me crazy. And then I can also get angry just because I can get impatient and whatever. I got sin. You know what I'm saying? So I am capable of anger is what I'm trying to say to you.

It is interesting to me, though, that I have not ever applied that to God. And it's not because I'm a superhero Christian-wise. I've tried to research in my own heart why that would be, because I do have a tendency toward being sparky, and I think my understanding is this. When I lost my sight at 15, y'all, I really did love Jesus. Like, I would read the Word every night. It was so real to me. I was so transformed. It was such a genuine relationship that when I lost my sight, I did not have a thought of, God, how could you do this to me? Instead it was more of a, Okay, I already love you, I already trust you. This is the thing. Okay, all right. I guess I loved him too much to be angry at him.

And over the years I have recognized that is still true. I really do. And I trust his sovereignty. I trust the heart of God more than I trust my own heart. And if he really is a God full of compassion, then there's times I think this has to have been a sacrifice on his part toward me to allow this. Because it has to hurt him on some level, too, you know, that he would allow this to happen. But it has to be for a greater good.

And then let me just get super practical. The older I've gotten and the more people I've watched who might be bitter or angry -- and by the way, if that's you, no judgment. We're all in process. Okay? But I do think it's counterproductive. It's just not pragmatic to live with bitterness and anger toward God. Because for me, I need him too much. So if I get mad at him, then I isolate myself from the only source of peace I've got. And I just can't do that to myself, nor do I -- for me personally, he's worthy of my respect. And to me, a simmering anger toward him is not respectful, and I can't do that to him. So that's where I'm at with it. So if you're in process, be patient with the process. But keeping your eyes on the character of God might help transition you and help you work through that process.

Michael O'Brien: I've always said that Jennifer in a lot of ways sees more clearly than most sighted people that I know. It really is amazing.

So this is to me. It says, "How do you find the love of Jesus? Can you share your story?" I don't have time to really share the story. I kind of breezed on it. But let me just say this. I don't even remember -- like, everybody has, like, a day, like this day. All I can tell you is I was very self-driven -- and, you know, we talked about my wife and her depression. A lot of it had to do with that I was not loving her as Christ loved the church. I was very driven in my job thinking, hey, you know, I got to make a living so I could take care of these kids. And Ephesians 5 has really rocked my world over the last couple of years.

But I would say in probably the early 2000s -- this is after I'd been in ministry. I mean, you can go through the motions. I know I did. There was a turn, though. There was a turn in my life when I almost lost my marriage, when I really believe that's when I fell in love with Jesus. It's like I was always trying to please so many other people. You know, if I do this, you'll like me. If I do this -- and I came to the point where I know now when I sin, I sin against God and God alone. It's Psalm 51. And I tell you, it has changed the trajectory of my life, just the love for His Word. And so I would say somewhere in there I think God really got ahold of my heart. So that's the best I can say.

Jennifer Rothschild: You know, share with them -- you've shared this before and I love it -- about in that transition, especially with Heidi, the differentiation between giftings and callings.

Michael O'Brien: Yeah, giftings and callings. So my gifting's always been music, you know, since I was maybe 13 -- 12, 13 years old. But I used to think that my calling was my job, which is music. But now I realize that my calling is to love my wife like Christ loved the church, raise my kids up in Christ, my grandkids up in Christ. And I never let my gifting take precedence now over my true calling.

Jennifer Rothschild: I'm glad you shared that. Thank you.

Michael O'Brien: Thanks. Yeah.

All right, Margaret. Since writing "Fight Back With Joy," what new items have you added to your dream list?

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. First of all, what is a dream list?

Margaret Feinberg: I don't know. I don't know who asked this. I'm going to just go for it.

Jennifer Rothschild: Go for it.

Michael O'Brien: You should.

Margaret Feinberg: Okay. So things that I still want to do, because I'm still here and I'm super grateful. So I've really gotten into floral arranging over the last few years, and I'm totally like -- I buy little Kroger grocery store flowers and just have fun watching videos and stay up way too late doing that. I also bought dental tools, to clean my dog's teeth, on Amazon.com for $6.00, because getting them cleaned is like $500, and that's ridiculous.

Jennifer Rothschild: And it's true.

Margaret Feinberg: I know, right? So we did that.

And then I really -- I think my dream list, besides being a doggy dentist and a florist, is -- I really want to just be embedded in my community. Like, it is the greatest joy. You know, we recently got asked to be godparents. You know, that's the stuff that I want my life full of, that we have loved people so well and been so known and -- not known, but knowing and known, you know. Like, that those relationships are so deep that there's that kind of fruit. I like that.

Jennifer Rothschild: Gosh, those are great dreams.

Michael O'Brien: That's good. I've never even heard of that doggy thing. That's...

Jennifer Rothschild: I just don't want your aspirations to increase and you decide you need to do dental work on all your community and your friends.

Michael O'Brien: Hey, come on.

Jennifer Rothschild: By the way, that little dog of yours -- you know, he travels with Margaret, Zoom.

Michael O'Brien: He's awesome.

Jennifer Rothschild: He is adorable. And he has the best teeth really.

Margaret Feinberg: Thank you.

Jennifer Rothschild: I wanted to mention that.

Margaret Feinberg: I appreciate that. That means a lot. That means a lot.

Michael O'Brien: He does have a beautiful smile.

Okay. So, "Jennifer, when you wrote 'Lessons I Learned In the Dark,' I was in awe of your ability to memorize and speak. Now that I am older, I really want to know your secret to remembering Bible verses and information for speaking engagements. Is there a magic cream for that too?"

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, I wish there were a magic cream. I would bathe in it. Oh, my people.

You know, memorizing became a necessity to me early on in blindness. And one of the things I first did -- and I still do this today. And I forget to mention it to people because it's so native to me. But I am always -- as soon as I'm starting to hear something or as soon as someone is talking, I literally am 100% zoned in trying to memorize what they're saying. So I am -- it's almost like in my mind I'm watching myself type what they're saying. Like, I am trying to memorize -- so in school even, whenever the teacher was talking, I literally was listening to memorize. So that's one thing, which is a very different way to listen. Sometimes we listen to analyze, sometimes we listen just -- or sometimes we're not even listening. So that's one thing.

But secondly then on a more granular level, I do listen constantly to Scripture. I will listen to it over and over. And it is harder as we get older, let's be honest. But what you've heard Michael do quoting vast passages of Scripture -- he's old, y'all, so it can still happen. You're welcome.

Anyway, my point is this. So it takes discipline, though. It takes discipline and it takes repetition. I have little memory things that I do to try to myself. I will use some rhythm or cadence with it. I'll memorize between punctuations. I make everything very visual in my mind. I will write it out in cursive or bubble letters or -- for memorizing a message, I have a ladder that I put all my points on. A ladder. And I put my message points on that ladder and then I literally will, like, put little pictures embedded in my mind to remember, and I will be climbing the ladder in my mind as I'm sharing.

So there's lots of techniques. But the point is, we think, well, I'm older, I can't remember things or it's not natural to me. It's not natural to anybody. It is a discipline that we develop, and then it becomes a habit to us. And so I -- try it. Just start small and try it.

But how do you -- because you're memorizing chapters now. How do you do it? What do you do to memorize?

Michael O'Brien: Yeah, it's repetition.

Jennifer Rothschild: It is.

Michael O'Brien: Repetition, hours and hours.

Jennifer Rothschild: Is it listening or seeing or both?

Michael O'Brien: Both.

Jennifer Rothschild: Both.

Michael O'Brien: Yeah. I'll listen when I'm in the car. I can't be reading while I'm trying to drive, but I'll listen to it. And the cadence is always different, so it's a little more challenging. So right now I'm on Romans, and that's difficult. It's very difficult. There's some girl named Mary Rick or something like that. She's memorized the New Testament.

Jennifer Rothschild: Wow.

Michael O'Brien: And now she's working on the Old Testament. And her husband had memorized the whole Bible.

Jennifer Rothschild: Wow.

Michael O'Brien: Took him 40-something years. I don't know. I mean, that's --

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, if we're ever on a deserted island, I want them with us.

Michael O'Brien: Yeah, absolutely.

Okay, this is to everybody. "What can one do when it is not possible to forgive someone?"

Margaret Feinberg: I think that for me -- you know, we've been bezzled, we've seen -- there's been some rough rough in our lives. And Jesus says to forgive seven times seven or, based on your translation, seven times 70. And that's not a literal number. I think what he was saying was sometimes you have to forgive as many times as it takes. So, you know, when we were embezzled, I think probably forgiveness started to settle in my heart probably around -- maybe 397, 412. But it is, it's kind of like a discipline.

And the other thing to remember -- and I know a lot of Christian stories ends with happy bows of everybody being happy. But there's a spectrum of forgiveness.

Jennifer Rothschild: There is.

Margaret Feinberg: So one is you have done something horrific to me, and now we're going to live across the street, and my children are going to marry your children, and we're going to be besties forever. Okay, so that is one spectrum.

But the other is a place where maybe it was so bad and the atrocity was so terrible that the freedom is that you forgive in your heart and you may not communicate with that person. And that's okay too, based on -- or they may be passed away and it may not even be possible. So it is a spectrum. But the great thing is when you see that person and it's no longer, like, a little hook inside of you.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, it's hard. Because that word "can," I can't forgive them. And I think, you know -- we had a situation where someone treated us unjustly, and I remember feeling like I couldn't forgive. And one of the things the Lord did for me was, you know, this remembrance that it is -- that's an act of grace, too, that through Christ I can forgive. In my own strength and desire, no way, Jose, but -- (crash sound). Sorry, Lord.

Michael O'Brien: Be careful.

Jennifer Rothschild: I got to be careful.

But through Christ we can. And you're right, you can forgive and still have boundaries. Stormie Omartian said -- and I've never forgotten -- forgiveness does not make that other person right. Forgiveness makes you free.

Michael O'Brien: Yeah, I like that one from Stormie.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Michael O'Brien: I think the other thing I would say is at least -- and this would be, like, really extreme cases where it's almost like they're not even asking for forgiveness, they're just -- and then it's just like a leaving them to the Lord. Like, Lord, you know my heart, what's in my heart. They're not even repentive. You do what you need to do in their life and -- so, yeah.

Okay. What's your favorite Bible verse?

Jennifer Rothschild: Margaret, you want to go first?

Margaret Feinberg: Sure. I think the one that comes to mind -- you might have read it -- is, "Jesus wept."

Jennifer Rothschild: And she's not kidding.

Margaret Feinberg: No.

Michael O'Brien: That's wonderful.

Margaret Feinberg: Because in some ways that's become -- warmed my heart just to know that Jesus is in it with us. He feels all the feels, he knows all the things, and he doesn't judge our emotions, he doesn't -- he's felt them all and so he's in it with us.

Jennifer Rothschild: You know, that's good, because sometimes we joke around like that's the only verse I memorized, you know. But what a depth it is that Christ allows human sorrow to enter into him and he responds with human sorrow. It's very comforting. It's beautiful.

Michael O'Brien: Jennifer?

Jennifer Rothschild: Mine? 2 Corinthians 4:16-18. Always has been, always will be. "Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly we are wasting away, inwardly daily we are being renewed. And our light and temporary troubles are working within us a far greater weight of glory, for that which is seen is temporary, and that which is unseen is eternal." Love it.

Michael O'Brien: That's good. I'll just keep mine small. It's Philippians 4:13. And I love the context around it too, because I think a lot of times we just go, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. And then we go -- you know, pull up my bootstraps, I'm going to this.

And the context is -- it has everything to do with having much or having little. He was basically saying I'm content if I don't have a lot and I'm content if I have more than others. But that was very helpful to me because I used to misquote that all the time when I first started in ministry.

Jennifer Rothschild: It's a Hobby Lobby verse. That's what I call it.

Michael O'Brien: A Hobby Lobby verse?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. It's like a Christian mug verse.

Michael O'Brien: Oh, I see what you're saying.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. It's on a print somewhere. And so we can, therefore, take it out of context easily. But you're right, it's about knowing that it is Christ in us who gives us the strength to respond correctly.

Michael O'Brien: That's right. That's right.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Michael O'Brien: Okay. Margaret, what's your most embarrassing moment?

Jennifer Rothschild: Ooh.

Margaret Feinberg: Ooh.

Jennifer Rothschild: Margaret, I love you're going first.

Margaret Feinberg: Thank you. Well, I'm a little spacy, if you guys haven't caught on, so I actually needed Phil to give me my phone because I couldn't remember because I have so many. And so I had to text my husband, and so now he told me the one.

And I went to a large event, and it was, like, at a campground center in Oklahoma. And I'm just spacy and so I forgot to pack pants.

Jennifer Rothschild: Pants?

Margaret Feinberg: Pants. They're kind of important. I didn't have any dresses at that time, and so --

Michael O'Brien: Yeah, that's --

Margaret Feinberg: Yeah. So it was like workout pants or pajama pants. And so the lady who's the organizer thought she was being helpful. And I was like, you know, "I need to borrow some pants." And so I said, "But please be discreet." And instead, she goes on the radio to everyone and says, "Does anyone have a pair of pants that Margaret Feinberg, our speaker, could wear?" Size bleep, bleep, bleep. I'm like, "What are you doing?"

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, that's funny. Yeah, that is embarrassing. I don't know what's worse, though, forgetting the pants or having everyone know what size you wore when you forgot your pants.

Michael O'Brien: Oddly enough, mine is dealing with pants too. Okay. So it was the Rusty Bucket. It was in South Carolina. It's a small little venue. And I went to go do a concert there for this guy as a favor. And he had a shirt that he wanted me to wear. And so at the time -- it's in the middle of nowhere pretty much, a little town, nobody's around. So the soundman, the guy that brought me in, and myself. And I just put the shirt -- you know, I took my other shirt off, put that on. But I'm married, and I realize I was not matching, my pants were not matching.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's not good.

Michael O'Brien: So my car, my little van, was in this little aisle, like, back in the -- nobody was around. No one. And so I had it all planned out, pants right there in this little hallway kind of thing. And I'm looking around just to make sure. I pull my pants down, I pull my other pants, I pull up, and I look to my right again, and right in that moment a grandmother, a mother, and her daughter, three generations, came right up on me. And, you know, they did the whole thing like move -- they began to walk backwards. I was so humiliated. And I had to have a lunch with them. And the 16-year-old girl never looked me in the eye the whole time. It was horrible.

All right, Jennifer.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. All right. So we've got two pants stories. I was wearing shorts in my story. And I've shared this so many times because, honestly, nothing has been worse and more embarrassing.

But I was in the eighth grade and I had just started shaving my legs. We lived in Miami at the time. We were driving to North Carolina. And I decided not to shave for those three days, so I had a lot of thick black hair. I got really thick hair, y'all. And so it was, like, coarse. It was like a weapon. Okay?

And so we get to this family camp where we're going to be in North Carolina, and I'm wearing my little short shorts from the '80s, you know, and -- or '70s, whenever it was. And so we get up the mountain and -- because we're late. And so me and my brothers join these little Bible study groups. And so they're trying to let us all get to know each other and we're going to do this little recreation game together, and it's called the People Passer. So I met with my little group of 40 people. And so we were going to pick the person in the group who weighed the least, which at the time happened to be me. And so that meant all the other students stood face to face and fingertip to fingertip, hands facing heavenward. And then they laid me on top of those hands and then they said, "Go," and they had to pass me as fast as possible. That meant every hand touched my legs. "Oh, what's wrong with your legs?" "Why don't you shave your legs?" "Ooh, you need to shave your legs." "Ouch, that hurts." And on and on and on and on. And I got to spend the entire week with them and my hairy legs.

And I've told you, I -- it was the most embarrassing moment of my life. I was 13 years old. I've barely recovered. I'm still so traumatized, I shave my legs every day whether I have hair or not. I don't even know if hair grows. I have no idea, because I shave every day.

Anyway, now the beans are spilled. Thanks, you guys.

K.C. Wright: Jenn, you were right, that was hilarious when Michael couldn't figure out what the question about the music stick meant.

Jennifer Rothschild: I know.

K.C. Wright: Oh, my goodness. And Margaret becoming a doggie dentist cracked me up. Cracked me up. Oh, my goodness.

Jennifer Rothschild: I know. But at the same time, I also really loved the whole Scripture memory thing, like how Michael is memorizing chapters. Y'all, that is so inspiring.

K.C. Wright: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: And I love the honest words about dealing with the hard stuff. I mean, it was just rich.

K.C. Wright: Yes. And I want to send Margaret some pants after this.

Jennifer Rothschild: I know. Okay, that was hilarious.

K.C. Wright: All right, our friends. You know we will have all sorts of extras, plus a transcript of this conversation at the Show Notes right now at 413podcast.com/310. I'm telling you, these Spill the Beans at the Fresh Grounded Faith conferences are just the best. This one is done. Put a fork in it.

Jennifer Rothschild: Put a fork in it.

K.C. Wright: Until next week, remember this promise. Whatever you face, however you feel, you can do all things through Christ who gives you supernatural strength. I can.

Jennifer Rothschild: I can.

Jennifer and K.C.: And you can.

K.C. Wright: You know what? I just love to laugh.

Jennifer Rothschild: Me too, K.C.

K.C. Wright: The joy of the Lord is your strength. When are we going to really believe that?

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, I think Ann Voskamp said, "If you ain't got no joy, you ain't got no strength."

K.C. Wright: It's so true. And I love loud laughers.

Jennifer Rothschild: I'm a loud laugher. I'm an obnoxious -- somebody told me I laugh like Dolly Parton.

K.C. Wright: Really?

Jennifer Rothschild: How about that?

K.C. Wright: Ooh, that's a compliment.

Jennifer Rothschild: I think I need to go have some Beaver Nuggets from Buc-ee's to celebrate.

K.C. Wright: Let's go. And some Beaver Chips.