4:13 Podcast: Spill the Beans LIVE with Kelly Minter at Fresh Grounded Faith College Station, TX [Episode 239]

Jennifer Rothschild: Hey, this is Jennifer. I want you to meet somebody. She's my precious girl that I sponsor through Compassion International. She's a little girl from Ecuador, who has no dad, but she has a Heavenly Father who is meeting her every need. If you're like me, you can feel overwhelmed with all the needs of the world. Covid 19 has affected all of us, but it has devastated those who already live in poverty. You know, we can't do everything, but we can do one thing, and that's what Compassion International allows us to do. It's a one-on-one relationship with a child who needs you, and it releases children from poverty in Jesus' name.

So go to 413podcast.com/Compassion to meet my precious girl from Ecuador. And while you're there, I invite you, I challenge you, and I encourage you to sponsor a child along with me. That's 413podcast.com/Compassion. And now it's time for some practical encouragement and some biblical wisdom on The 413.

Oh, these are some fantastic beans that we are spilling today. This was captured live in College Station, Texas, at a Fresh Grounded Faith conference with Bible teacher Kelly Minter and singer-songwriter Michael O'Brien. You are about to hear what fiction vacations are and how my husband, Phil, proposed to me. Kelly Minter is going to share the unlikely Bible character she most relates to, plus we give some advice for moms of teenage sons. And I share the hardest thing about blindness, and I can guarantee you it is not what you expect. So get ready for what will turn out to be one of your favorite 4:13 podcasts. K.C., here we come.

K.C. Wright: Here we go. Welcome to the 4:13 Podcast, where practical encouragement and biblical wisdom set you up to live the "I Can" life, because you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.

Now, would you welcome your host, Jennifer Rothschild.

Jennifer Rothschild: Hey there, people. We're so glad you are back with us this week. It just means a lot to us that you are a part of our 4:13 family. I'm Jennifer and I'm here to help you be and do more than you feel capable of as you live the "I Can" life of Philippians 4:13. We say it often around here, it's two friends, one topic --

Jennifer and K.C.: Zero stress.

K.C. Wright: That's my favorite part.

Jennifer Rothschild: Except, really, I don't think it applies, well, here today, because it's lots of friends with several topics.

K.C. Wright: Yeah. But it's still zero stress.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, yes.

K.C. Wright: One thing that is so fun about this Fresh Grounded Faith you did in College Station is that Joseph O'Brien joined you there to lead worship. Now, if you guys don't know who he is, he is Michael O'Brien's son. But what made America know him was that he was on America's Got Talent. And you may remember him. I do. He was the singer-songwriter who had never kissed a girl.

Jennifer Rothschild: I know. I love that. And, you know, he has handled his life, his ministry so well. He's now signed with --is it called Gotee Records, TobyMac?

K.C. Wright: Yes, Gotee.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, yeah. So he is with him, so you'll have to check him out. But what a wonderful young man. It gave me such hope about the future of platform ministry when I got to be with Joseph. Not just his skill and talent, but more importantly even, his heart off stage was just as beautiful as what he expressed on stage. It was a really great event, and you're going to get a great taste of it as we sat around the Bistro table.

Now, you won't hear from Joseph, so you need to check him out on Spotify and online and in all the places, but you're going to get to hear from Kelly Minter and Michael O'Brien.

K.C. Wright: Well, even though Kelly and Michael are already 4:13ers, let me give their official intros, just in case you just joined us and you haven't heard from them yet.

Kelly Minter is an author, Bible teacher, and podcaster. Her most recent Bible study from Lifeway Publishers is called "Ruth: Loss, Love & Legacy." Kelly speaks around the country and also works closely with Justice & Mercy International in the Amazon jungles of Brazil. Kelly is the host of the Cultivate Podcast and a frequent guest at Fresh Grounded Faith. Now, when she's not writing, traveling, or speaking, she enjoys time in her garden, cooking, and being an auntie to her adorable nieces and nephews.

Michael O'Brien is the man.

Jennifer Rothschild: The man.

K.C. Wright: He spent years as the lead singer for Newsong and has been an important part of Fresh Grounded Faith events for over a decade. His concerts range from an upbeat message of praise, to sharing his heart about his own failures and his past that he's worked through with God, and has a powerful testimony --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, he does.

K.C. Wright: -- on how the Gospel changed everything for him. Michael has had several number one hits and has produced six CDs, including the most recent project release, "Crown Him." He lives with his wife, Heidi -- they're a beautiful couple -- on a farm with some fainting goats in Tennessee. I've always wanted some of my own. They make me laugh so much. They just randomly fall over.

Jennifer Rothschild: They do.

K.C. Wright: And I do that several times a day.

Pull up a chair. There's room at the Bistro for you. Let's go.

Michael O'Brien: Okay, Jennifer, for you, first one. How did Phil propose to you?

Kelly Minter: Ooh, I don't know this story.

Jennifer Rothschild: No. Most people don't. We dated -- were in college together, Palm Beach Atlantic University. We dated my freshman year, his sophomore year. Then we broke up for two years. And then -- I won't go into that story. It is a good story. Well, okay. He kissed his old girlfriend. But I'm not going to go into that story.

Michael O'Brien: Wah, wah, wah.

Jennifer Rothschild: Anyway --

Kelly Minter: It is called Spill the Beans.

Jennifer Rothschild: It is called Spill the Beans. Those are some sizzling hot beans. Anyway...

But then my senior year -- which he had graduated and he was working at the university -- we started dating again. So we dated for that entire year. And I remember it was Valentine's Day, and in his little apartment he had set up this little beautiful dinner. I'm like, the ring's coming. And the ring didn't come.

And then the next month, he said, "Let's go out on this dinner cruise." We were on the intercoastal waterway in Palm Beach. And so we get on this boat, we're going down the intercoastal. And we get right to this point on the intercoastal across from the place where our first kiss was. Okay, it had been a vacant lot, but since that time a building was built on that lot and it was called Philip's Point. No kidding. So when the boat got right next to Philip's Point, he got down on one knee and he handed me a ring and asked if I would marry him. And then -- he did not plan this, but it was the coolest thing -- the band on the boat starts (singing) start spreading the news.

Kelly Minter: Oh, that's awesome. That's awesome.

Jennifer Rothschild: And I said yes.

Kelly Minter: That's great.

Michael O'Brien: Well, yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: And I still say yes every day.

Kelly Minter: Oh, that's awesome. I love that.

Michael O'Brien: That was very sweet, Jennifer. Phil, good job, buddy.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes, he did a good job.

Kelly Minter: Way to go, Phil.

Michael O'Brien: Kelly, this is just for you. Is there a person from the Bible you feel you can truly identify with?

Kelly Minter: Yes. There's so many. Okay, I'm going to -- do I say the real answer or the second real answer?

Jennifer Rothschild: Say the first real answer.

Kelly Minter: Okay, so I -- so don't -- okay, I'm going to tell you the name in just a second. But don't feel like I'm trying to be woe is me martyr -- okay? -- because I'm not. But maybe Leah. Okay? But here's why. And I could have done this talk last night, or this -- I just love that passage. But where it says that the Lord saw that she was not loved and he opened up her womb. Now, I don't mean that I'm an unloved woman. I don't mean it that way at all. But I just love her story, that she struggled with the rejection, she struggled with the singleness, she struggled.

And you go all the way back into the very beginning of Genesis -- I mean, we're not even -- at that point, we're not even to all the major -- I mean, we're in the patriarchs, but I think we haven't even gotten to the Promised Land or anything like that, and it says that God saw one unloved woman. Which really just makes me know -- the reason I identify with her is because she just -- God saw her pain. So I kind of look at it as like the Lord sees the pain when we are single. Or when we have been rejected or when we feel like we're on the outside or we feel like there's a void, God sees it.

But what's cool about that story is that in the very end, you think, well, wait, why did God open up her womb? That wasn't her problem. Her problem was that Jacob didn't love her and hadn't chosen her. But when you get to the end of the story, you realize that God was answering her story, because even though Jacob would never love her or choose her, God opened her womb, she ends up having Judah, which is through whom the Christ, the Messiah, will come. And so even though Jacob had not chosen her, God had chosen her.

So that to me is probably -- like, if I'm going to be real honest, she's probably one that I'm like, that's pretty cool. She didn't necessarily get what culture and what we want exactly in the way that culture says it should be or that we should think it should be, but God had chosen her and then did this incredible work in her life, but it was in such a way that it was so different.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, I love everything about that. I'm so glad you shared that.

Michael O'Brien: That's great insight.

Kelly Minter: Thank you.

Jennifer Rothschild: It's excellent insight. I know it resonates with a lot of women here. So thank you.

Kelly Minter: You are welcome.

Michael O'Brien: And men.

Jennifer Rothschild: And men. That's right.

Michael O'Brien: This is for me. Did you ever play with Amy Grant? No. Thanks for bringing up such a painful...

You know what's so weird is that I was doing this event where Amy Grant was singing -- like, I was leading worship at it. It was a big conference. And so I'm standing right -- like, she's ready to go on stage and I'm just kind of standing there going, I know your stuff and everything. I mean, this is like seven years ago, so she's been -- you know. I never talked to her. I just didn't want to be one of those weird people. But, no, I have not. But I guess I shared the same stage.

Jennifer Rothschild: You did. That's -- you shared the stage with Amy Grant.

Michael O'Brien: Okay. Kelly, where are you going to seminary?

Kelly Minter: I'm at Denver Seminary. Which is in Denver, and I'm in Nashville, so I am taking all of my classes online. But they're very interactive, and it's been great. Yeah, I'm getting my masters in biblical and theological studies.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's what I was about to ask you, what the degree would be. Okay.

Kelly Minter: Yes. So all Bible and theology, which I absolutely love. But then it's fun to come into the real world. So on Thursday -- Wednesday I was cramming all day for a midterm; Thursday I took it. My head was in all these, like, heady spaces, and then I got to come here and just -- it's like --

Jennifer Rothschild: Breathe.

Kelly Minter: -- oh, yes, there's real life, like, real life. So it's good to merge the two.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, yes, it is.

Michael O'Brien: I'm just going to say, I took one course because I was going to get my thing in biblical and theological studies. No. It is very, very difficult. Anyway...

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, I bet.

Michael O'Brien: All right, this is to everybody. Is there such a thing as raising godly teenage boys? Any advice? No. Next question. No, I'm kidding. Go ahead, Jennifer.

Jennifer Rothschild: Hey, what we saw today with Joseph --

Kelly Minter: Yeah. He's precious.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Kelly Minter: He's awesome.

Jennifer Rothschild: I'm just saying.

Michael O'Brien: You go ahead. I'll share something. Thanks.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, we have two sons, and I will say they are godly young men. So, yes, there's such thing. But here's the thing, y'all. The goal is not to parent toward a certain outcome. The goal is to be the parent who has a certain heart, and then God takes care of the outcome. You know what I'm saying?

Kelly Minter: That's awesome.

Jennifer Rothschild: So as a mom, I'm super -- always was -- super careful -- and I'm mindful now as a mom, not to be a hover mother. I want to grow men. And so I never want to emasculate them, I never want -- I don't want them to feel like they have to rescue their mama either. You know what I'm saying? I want to grow men who can stand on their two feet, who can be leaders, godly, kind, shepherding leaders. But I'm not responsible for that outcome. I'm responsible for what I do in the daily, what Phil and I do, and then the Lord takes care of the outcome. So I just say you give your best, you live a pure life before them. You apologize when you're wrong, you treat them like men, expect them to be men, and I believe they will rise to that occasion.

Kelly Minter: That's awesome.

Michael O'Brien: Yeah, I would just add, as a dad, too, I think you have to be really proactive, especially with social media today and all the dangers. It was the same back in the 60s when I was being raised, but different in a sense that -- I mean, there's still an enemy that's wanting to get your children.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

Michael O'Brien: And so I don't think we ever stopped praying for them. I also -- always pointing them to the Scriptures, always pointing them to dying to self, which is what we would do for daughters as well. But we don't want to raise grownup baby men.

Jennifer Rothschild: No, we don't.

Michael O'Brien: That's my wife's little --

Jennifer Rothschild: That's what I say, too, no grownup baby men.

Michael O'Brien: And so, yeah, they're going to be different -- when you're raising them, especially if you have a father in their life -- which I think it's just as important, if not more important. I heard a statistic -- and I could be wrong on this, Jennifer, so forgive me. But if the father is a believer in Christ, 97 % of the family follows. They've talked about mothers, and it's like 17%. And if the child is, it's 3%. So there's a huge influence that a dad has, on his sons especially, in his family. But it doesn't take away from the mom's role. She is a huge -- I mean, my son loves his mama. So I think there's a well-balanced -- God knew what he was doing when he set up the family. That's all I'm saying, he knew what he was doing when he set up the family.

Jennifer Rothschild: And he is kind if there is a broken family. And if we stay in the community of Christ in the church, he will compensate.

Michael O'Brien: Yes. That's that family that we were talking about.

Jennifer Rothschild: It is the family.

And I will say one last thing about this. So our kids were never -- never were and never have been, never will be perfect, of course. And we went through a hard spell with one of them when he was 13, and Phil was especially concerned about it. And we were at the Focus On The Family campus, Shirley and James Dobson, and they had a teenage son about the same age as ours. And it was just a gift from the Lord. Shirley comes right over to Phil and talked just a little -- he must have given some clue -- and she said, "Listen, I just want you to know. Do not assume the child they are at 13 is who the adult they will be at 23."

Kelly Minter: That's a good word.

Jennifer Rothschild: It gave him hope. And it's a good word.

Michael O'Brien: That is a good word.

Jennifer Rothschild: It is a good word.

Kelly Minter: That's good.

Michael O'Brien: We're all just little sinners, aren't we? Okay.

Jennifer Rothschild: We're all just little sinners, yes, we are.

Michael O'Brien: Michael, you have goats? That's correct. Why no chickens? Because I don't want to deal with chickens. Why would I want to do that? Chick-fil-A is the place I need to go if I want to deal with chickens.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's right. That's where you get your chickens, at Chick-fil-A. That's funny that they asked. I love that.

Michael O'Brien: That is a funny question.

Okay, Jennifer, how do you remember everything without visual prompts? Great question.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, like I said last night, I think visually. So I do have some visual prompts in my head if I can keep my head clear. And so like when I'm paying attention to keeping a message in my head to present, I do one thing uniformly for every presentation I do. I have a ladder in my head. You know the ladder, Michael? You tried to remember that word last night?

Michael O'Brien: Yeah. Hey, there's that word again.

Jennifer Rothschild: Rung after rung after rung, yeah.

My ladder has three rungs, which means I'm only going to pretty much make three points. They're going to most of the time be obvious. But I don't think most people have the absorption rate for a five-rung ladder, so I do three. But underneath the first rung of the ladder is anything I'm going to use as an introduction kind of. I have some pictures of it.

Then the first rung of the ladder, I literally will write Isaiah 6:1 on top of that in my mind's eye. And then on top of that, I have a picture of King Uzziah. I have his crown, I've got a throne, because you remember the Scripture I shared with you this morning in Isaiah 6:1. And then I'll have the train of the robe.

And if you notice when I'm talking, I literally -- I do talk with my hands, but there's a reason. I will say, "and he was highly exalted," and I'm going up. And then the train of his robe fills the temple. Because literally in my mind, I am tracing all those pictures I drew in my head. And so I shape the air with my hand, tend to, just because it helps me see those pictures in my head well.

So that's how I do it. I stack things on my ladder, I give visuals to them. And I will do, you know, pneumonic devices, little hints. Like, I know that Isaiah 6:3 is, "Holy, holy, holy," the seraphims are calling to each other. Why? Because verse 3, there's three holies. So I do little things like that to help keep me oriented so I don't get lost.

Kelly Minter: That's awesome.

Michael O'Brien: That's amazing.

Kelly Minter: It really is, yeah.

Michael O'Brien: Yeah. I've heard you say that so many different times, and I'm still amazed at how you do it. And also, when I look at you, I don't even -- it's like I don't even think you look blind. I know that sounds weird. Because you look over at me when you're talking or something --

Jennifer Rothschild: The Holy Spirit knows who I need to, like, help convict. He's like, "Michael, look to Michael, Jennifer." That's what it is.

Kelly Minter: That's funny. She's, like, never looked at me.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, I've never looked at Kelly. I'm just saying.

Kelly Minter: No pruning over here.

Michael O'Brien: Okay. This is for all three of us. There's a serious question and there's a fun question. So the serious question is -- and I'm not going to answer this one -- What is your best advice for young single Christian women? For those of us who are single or for those we disciple? And then the second question is, What's the best chocolate?

Kelly Minter: That's awesome.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, let's wait for the second. Kelly, I just feel like because you are single at this stage of life, what would your advice be?

Kelly Minter: Yes. So for me, I have to -- I always have to preface this. The answer to this question is that I am actually a very, very content single person. Now, that doesn't mean that that's always been the case. I mean, it ebbs and flows. Singleness is like anything, it ebbs and flows. Some days you're so happy when all of the people around you, like, their marriages are falling apart or they're so mad at their husband or -- and you're like, okay, wow, there are worse things than being single. There really are. You could be trapped in a bad -- you know, or whatever.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Kelly Minter: But then there are those times where it -- because I am one of those believers, I think marriage is absolutely fantastic and there's no replacement for it. There are different paths. There's not a substitute for being married, there's not a substitute for having children. There are other things that the Lord does that are also not substitutes for -- you know, they're not substitutes for one another; they're different. But I will say that I do feel very content. And as I talked about last night, the idea of productivity and fruit bearing and production, that's not just for married people. So if you actually trace the fruit bearing, it actually starts in Genesis with, "Go bear children." That's how that -- you know, bear fruit means to have --

Jennifer Rothschild: Be fruitful.

Kelly Minter: "Be fruitful" means to have physical children. That's how it starts in Genesis.

But by the time you get to the New Testament, it is totally different. It's all about kingdom fruit. It includes physical children, but it is not exclusive to that. So that means that my life -- there is still a call on my life. And there is a call on all the single people's lives, or the people who are married that are struggling, or the people who are married that don't have children but want them. There is a call for all of us because he has chosen us. He's appointed us to go and bear much fruit that will last.

So in a lot of respects, like, I have a very -- God has blessed me with a very full life. In fact, sometimes it's almost, like, too much where I'm like, oh, my goodness, like, my parents really need me tonight, and then I've got my nieces and nephews and I want to run to their baseball game, but I also need -- I have a test, but I'm heading out to this event. And so I actually have a hard time at this stage in my life being able to even decide what things are the best things to do, which is a blessing. That's a gift. It's not always been like that.

But a few years ago my brother and his wife moved to Nashville, and they came with Will and Lily. Will is 11, Lily -- I'm sorry, Will and Harper. Will is 11, Harper is 10, and then Lily was born in Tennessee. She's 5 now. So we got her from scratch, is what I like to say. And they're over all the time, and I love being an aunt. They spend the night at my house, we do things. I absolutely love it. And then when I stop loving it, they just go home. It's incredible. I mean, I stuff them in car seats and drive them right back to my brother and his wife. So the Lord is giving me a lot of influence.

So I guess to encourage the single people here, there's no question in my mind that the full life, the abundant life, there's nowhere in Scripture where it says that the abundant life is caught up in a husband or in a wife or in children or in grandchildren. The abundant life is caught up in Jesus. Now, it doesn't mean that those aren't incredible gifts that should be sought after. They are good gifts, and we don't want the culture that we live in to diminish those good gifts. And at the same time, if those aren't the gifts that you have right now, Jesus is the ultimate gift, and he tangibly -- he tangibly gives us good things, so...

Jennifer Rothschild: Beautiful answer.

Michael O'Brien: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: Wow. I love it.

Michael O'Brien: Back to the more frivolous of the chocolate.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, yeah, and now to chocolate.

Michael O'Brien: Go ahead. Yes, Jennifer, what do you think?

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. Well, affordable or non-affordable, I'm going to go with a newly affordable Godiva dark chocolate. You can get it at Walgreens, you can get it at Target. It looks like it's a bar -- okay? -- one of those thin long bars like Lindt chocolate, but when you open it up, it's like eight little skinny bars. They look like Kit Kats and they're little pieces of dark chocolate. They're so good. I'm just saying.

Michael O'Brien: All right. Back to Kelly.

Kelly Minter: I mean, there's nothing comparable to Trader Joe's peanut butter -- dark chocolate peanut butter cups.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, I agree.

Kelly Minter: I have a stash in my refrigerator at all times. And I'm very gracious with my nieces and nephews. But the other day, I saw Harper in the fridge just reaching into my stash of --

Jennifer Rothschild: Ooh.

Kelly Minter: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's not good.

Kelly Minter: It's like, "Harper, listen, you're going to have to have a talk with your aunt." So, yeah, the dark chocolate covered peanut butter cups from Trader Joe's. If you don't have a Trader Joe's, I am so sorry for where you live.

Jennifer Rothschild: Then you'll just have to buy the Godiva dark because everybody's got a Walgreens.

Kelly Minter: There we go. There we go.

Jennifer Rothschild: What about you, Michael, are you a chocolate man?

Jennifer Rothschild: I'm just going to have to say something that's going to be shocking.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, no.

Michael O'Brien: First of all, I don't like dark chocolate. But I do love white chocolate, but --

Jennifer Rothschild: It's not even chocolate.

Michael O'Brien: Okay, would you please --

Jennifer Rothschild: It's not the same. It's not chocolate.

Michael O'Brien: You're right, it's not white or chocolate --

Jennifer Rothschild: No.

Michael O'Brien: -- but it's good and I'm going with it.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay.

Michael O'Brien: All right, Jennifer, what's the hardest part about dealing with your kindness? Oh, your blindness.

Kelly Minter: Michael, I am going to take your job over. I'm about to take it over.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's very funny.

Kelly Minter: It's the handwriting, isn't it?

Jennifer Rothschild: Kindness, blindness. Well, some days kindness is harder than blindness. It just depends on the situation.

Okay, what is the hardest thing about dealing with my blindness? Oh, y'all, sometimes it depends on the day. You know, I just get tired. I get tired. There's nothing more draining than blindness. I mean -- well, it's the only thing I know, so maybe there is something. But for me, it is very draining. And I think it's because my brain never gets to shut down. I've got too much going on in it all the time. And then you combine that with traveling a lot and keep trying to remember things, so that's probably this season the hardest things, the hardest thing.

Then the other hardest thing has nothing to do with what I can see or can't see. The other hardest thing probably has to do with managing the emotions that come with blindness. It could be extreme frustration, it could be a lack of contentment, it could be despair, it depends. But often it's the emotions that go with blindness that are probably the hardest things to learn and manage. But the Lord gives grace for all of it. He gives grace for all of it.

And I guess the last thing I'd say about that is I don't go through blindness and manage it with an expectation that I'm going to figure it out and it's going to get better. I just don't. I look at it as if God has allowed it, it's going to be hard, so it can either enslave me and take me down or I can learn to walk with it in such a way that it actually serves me and strengthens me and it becomes an ally. And so that's kind of how I've chosen to do life with blindness, and it helps me manage the hard parts.

Kelly Minter: Can I ask a question? Is this allowed? In relation to that, what is rest for you? And maybe it's the same thing for -- but I would imagine it would look a little bit different.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, yeah, rest -- I mean, this is a tough subject for me because I don't sleep well. And part of that is blindness. You know, your body doesn't get to register the difference between sunlight and darkness, and it is an illusion that a blind person can take melatonin and go right to sleep. That's just not how it is. So I get the endogenous issue of sleeplessness anyway. Then I have the issue of the brain that doesn't shut down. Because literally, when I fall asleep -- you know, I usually wake up right before REM usually hits in -- and literally my mind, it's like all the windows in my computer open up. You are in your bed, the bathroom is to your left. On your right is the exit door. I mean, so my brain constantly reconfiguring my locations. Okay, so then you get that.

So for me -- so I'm leading to this odd answer. When I said earlier that I take fiction vacations, in a very odd way that is rest for me. So I will literally go sit on the back deck and just silence myself. And I listen to Scripture and all. But I got to be honest, when I get into Scripture, I will get totally focused and study and learn and wonder what the Hebrew is, I have to take a mental vacation. And so I will listen to a fiction book, and I will go across the world to wherever that is, and in a weird way, it's rest for me.

Kelly Minter: No, that's -- totally, yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: It really is. So physically I rest, my mind rests, my emotions rest, my spirit rests. And I do believe that helps strengthen me. So it is -- you're right, it looks different. But that's a way that I've learned to rest.

Michael O'Brien: I'm learning more -- one of the first times I've even thought about sleep for you because of -- you don't get the light and the dark.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Michael O'Brien: That is -- wow. I've always said that Jennifer sees more clearly than most sighted people that I know, so -- but, wow, that's incredible.

All right. Does your wife -- oh, this is for me. Does your wife ever travel with you to events? Sometimes she does. She lives with chronic pain. She has an incurable disease that gives her pain 24/7, so traveling just accentuates that, so she doesn't do it a lot. But sometimes when she's really missing me, she will come with me, so...

Jennifer Rothschild: She's an incredible lady.

Michael O'Brien: She's obviously not here, so she's not missing me that -- no.

Jennifer Rothschild: But she really is an incredible woman, she really is. Talk about somebody who knows the Word and lives the Word, Heidi does.

Michael O'Brien: Yeah.

So this is the last question. It says, "Tell a funny thing that has happened to you."

Jennifer Rothschild: All right, tell a funny thing that's happened to you. Michael, let's let you go first so Kelly can think.

Kelly Minter: I know, I got to think.

Jennifer Rothschild: I can think of a couple if you need help.

Michael O'Brien: So I have one. I was, about two years ago, asked to go sing at this place called The Rusty Bucket. It's kind of an indoor-outdoor thing in the middle of a really broken downtown of this little town that nobody lived in. And this guy was trying to do this, so I did it as a favor and I drove out there. Everything was fine. The sound system was fine. And I got my sound check, and he came over and he brought a T shirt to me and said, "Hey, would you mind wearing this tonight?" And so I said, "Sure." It said, "I'm An Artist That's Sung at Rusty Bucket." It was something that simple.

And so I put the shirt on. I was in jeans. No, I was in shorts, but they did not match the shirt now. And my wife lives in my head. And so I thought, well, nobody's here, I'm just going to go -- I was parked in an alley. I mean, it's a dead town. So I went and I had it all set up. It was going to be a quick change. And long story short, I finally did the look to the right, look to the left, yanked the pants, got my shorts, started lifting them up, looked to my right. A grandmother, her daughter, and her daughter -- so three generations -- literally were walking around the corner as I had my pants -- okay? And then it was like it hit them and they started walking backwards a little bit. Come to find out, it was the promoter's wife, their daughter, and their granddaughter, and I had to have lunch with them. And the granddaughter, who was 16, never looked in my eyes. Not once. So there you go.

Jennifer Rothschild: I can understand why that's a little awkward, Michael.

Michael O'Brien: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, that's funny.

Kelly Minter: Oh, that is funny. I'm trying to think. I'm sure that there have been a million things.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, think of embarrassing. Has something -- because, like, Michael's is not only funny, it's funny to us, but embarrassing.

Kelly Minter: Yeah, I know. I feel like I've got a lot of those, too.

Well, this happened a long time ago, but it was one of those ones where you're like, if anybody ever asks you this question, now you have the answer for the rest of your life. But I was actually out on tour, and it was about 15 minutes -- it was very cold, it was -- Halloween, was the day. I was out with Sonicflood. And it was right before I was opening up, probably 10 minutes before showtime. And I was looking for my guitar backstage and I got confused, which is -- I'm very directionally challenged. So I thought I was on the left side of the stage in the back, but I was on the right side. And so I was like, Where's my guitar? Why isn't it not here? And I start walking across the stage, and it's pitch black because it's backstage and it's pitch, pitch black, and all of a sudden I step and I start sinking and having this really weird feeling. And all of a sudden I'm in water and I have fallen into a covered baptismal that was full. And I had a wool sweater on, leather boots, jeans, the whole thing, and I'm, like, completely covered.

And then I pull myself out, I come around the corner and there's the radio station that is there to interview me, like, after. And I'm soaking wet and I have to perform in, like, five or ten minutes or something like that.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, my gosh.

Kelly Minter: Trying to find your stuff in a tour bus, you know, is not easy.

So then from there on out, the guys in the Sonicflood band, every time we went to a church, they had a big sign that said "Kelly Minter Baptismal" on all the doors, so just like -- it was like a thing that carried on in every single city.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's awesome.

Kelly Minter: And I called a friend at the time and she goes, "Well, if anybody ever asks you what your most embarrassing story is, you now have it for the rest of your life."

Jennifer Rothschild: Now you have it.

Kelly Minter: So, yes, there you go.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, gosh. Well, I've had a couple -- I will say this -- that it reminds me of this. This was, gosh, 10 years ago-ish. Do you remember -- Robert Schuller was on the Hour of Power --

Michael O'Brien: Oh, yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- right? Okay.

Kelly Minter: I'm just going to say, that was before my time.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. Oh, yes. I'm sorry. Me and Michael.

Kelly Minter: I'm just going to use that --

Michael O'Brien: Gramps over there, we know about this.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. So Robert Schuller had this show called The Hour of Power, it was at the Crystal Cathedral. And I had been invited to do several things at their church, and they were super kind to me. And Dr. Schuller is a very dignified man. Okay? And his wife, very dignified. I mean, just the whole thing, very -- dignity. That should be the word we all need to keep in mind for what I'm about to tell you.

So after one of the sessions, he invited me and my travel assistant to come up to the top of this beautiful tower, have dinner or lunch with Mr. and Mrs. Schuller and some of the other pastoral staff. Dignified, dignified. Crystal, china, cloth napkins, lovely. Dr. Schuller is sitting where Kelly is, to my right, and Mrs. is where Michael is. Well, somebody, who I wish I could remember who it is because I would like to say, "Why did you ask me that question?" Whoever this was sitting over to my left starts to ask me a similar question than we just answered -- asked and answered, "How do you remember your messages?" Okay. So I start to answer this question.

Well, you know how when you're in a group, you're kind of always listening to other people? Well, evidently they all want to know the answer, so it gets really quiet, just in time for me to have explained -- I have just said, "Well, if you noticed" -- you know, I talked about the importance of faith, and then I dealt a little bit with fear, and da da da, and I'm going on and giving my points. And then I said, "So if you notice, I just literally said the F word four times." And they're all silent. And then it dawns on me, I meant four words that start with F. I said, "Four words that start with F. Dr. Schuller, I did not say the F word." Anyway, he finally laughed and I felt so much better.

K.C. Wright: I say this every time, this is why I love Fresh Grounded Faith. And I know you do too. In fact, if you have ever been to a Fresh Grounded Faith and you haven't left us a podcast review, would you care to leave us a review --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes, please.

K.C. Wright: -- and tell us if you've been to a Fresh Grounded Faith and where it was. We would absolutely love to know that. And if you want to attend one, you can go now to freshgroundedfaith.com to find out where Jennifer will be.

And let me just say one more thing.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay.

K.C. Wright: On the Show Notes at 413 podcast.com/239, we will have all the links to Michael O'Brien's music and Kelly's Bible studies and music too. So everything you need is right there on those Show Notes. 413podcast.com/239.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yep. Listen, y'all, you need Kelly's books, Bible studies, and Michael's music. It will make your life better, because both those people, they just bless me so much. So get with your friends and spill some beans. Your life will be richer when you do.

All right, our people. So until next week, remember that whatever you face and however you feel, you can do all things through Christ who gives you strength. I can.

K.C. Wright: I can.

Jennifer and K.C.: And you can.

Jennifer Rothschild: And that is a wrap.