4:13 Podcast: Spill the Beans LIVE with Ann Voskamp at Fresh Grounded Faith Chesapeake, VA [Episode 324]

Jennifer Rothschild: Hey, this is Jennifer Rothschild. You know I love my audiobooks from Audible. That's how I'm able to read so many books in a year. If you've never tried it, you can get a 30-day free trial with no obligation. Plus, you'll get a free audiobook of your choice that you can keep. So go to 413podcast.com/Audible to get started. And now, the podcast.

Well, friends, you are going to a Fresh Grounded Faith today with me, Ann Voskamp, Tammy Trent, and Michael O'Brien. So pull up your chair because we are going to be talking about the importance of community, what to do if you feel anger toward God, how to memorize Scripture, and there's even a special and hilarious call-out to all the single ladies. So let's spill the beans.

KC Wright: Welcome to the 4:13 Podcast, where practical encouragement and biblical wisdom set you up to live the "I Can" life, because you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.

Now, welcome your host, Jennifer Rothschild.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, that was my buddy, that was my Seeing Eye Guy, KC Wright. And it's just two friends right here smushed in the closet, just talking about one topic with zero stress. And if you've been hanging out with us a while, you know that our whole goal here is to help you be and do more than you even feel capable of because you're living this "I Can" life of Philippians 4:13, Christ's power in you to accomplish what you could never accomplish on your own for his glory, for the good of his people. And on and on Jennifer could go, but I shall stop.

All right. So me and KC have missed you. It's been a week. Hope you've had a good week. Have you had a good week, KC?

KC Wright: You know, I have.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right.

KC Wright: It's been a good week.

Jennifer Rothschild: I love it when we've had a good week. Good weeks are fun.

KC Wright: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, I will tell you this. This conference that I was at, this Fresh Grounded Faith, it was a good conference. But what happened after, hmm, not so good.

KC Wright: Uh-oh.

Jennifer Rothschild: So I got to tell you before you hear this conversation. Because I was with the Ann Voskamp, the lovely --

KC Wright: Oh.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- deep --

KC Wright: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- amazing Ann Voskamp. Right?

KC Wright: Her writings make me cry, and I'm a dude with a beard.

Jennifer Rothschild: I know.

KC Wright: I mean, she touches my heart every time.

Jennifer Rothschild: Dude, I could read her grocery list and probably rededicate my life to Christ, because she's just -- she's amazing.

Okay, so here's what happened. She lives in Canada, if y'all don't know this. And so we're leaving this conference, me and Ann and my husband Phil, and we're changing planes in -- I think it was Charlotte. So we fly from Virginia to Charlotte, and it's one of those things. Delay, delay, delay, change the plane. Well, that meant that Ann's flight to Canada and our flight back to Missouri were all getting delayed, and then eventually you can imagine what happened. We get to Charlotte and everything is canceled, because by the time we get there, it's so late. We get there at about 11:30. Well, it was weather. So every hotel that we could have possibly gotten in was booked. Because Phil, you know, was immediately trying to work this out, because we've been in the airport at that point six hours and blah, blah, blah. I'm not even going to tell you all the miserable details, because it doesn't matter. The bottom line is Ann, Phil, me, stuck in Charlotte, with no hotel, at 11:30 at night. Okay, so here's what my brilliant husband did.

KC Wright: Goodness.

Jennifer Rothschild: There's these things called Minute Suites, and it's where you really just kind of can pay the hour to go take a nap, you know.

KC Wright: Okay, yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: It's not meant to spend the night in there. It's a little room, just slightly bigger than our podcast closet, and in it is a -- oh, what is that called? Not a futon. Kind of like a futon, you know --

KC Wright: Yeah, yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- where one person could sleep on it, or you open it and you can sleep very snug with someone else. There's a table in it, and that's it.

KC Wright: Wow.

Jennifer Rothschild: And then down the hall is a bathroom. And I can't even remember how much you pay per hour, but at this point we didn't care. So Phil, brilliant husband that he is, he calls the Minute Suites. And he's like, "Do you have any available? Do you have two?" And the guy was like, "Yeah, we got two." "How many hours can we keep it?" "Well, you can keep it up to eight hours if you'd like." And so he said, "Well, we only need six hours." So Phil and me smush in one of the Minute Suites; Ann smushes in the other. We've got no blankets, no pillows. Just a couch. No -- nothing.

KC Wright: No.

Jennifer Rothschild: And we're like, "We love you, Ann." And she sleeps in her little Minute Suite; we sleep in ours. We all, you know, go to the bathroom in the middle of the night down the hall. Next morning we're up at 6:00 AM catching our flights. It was the funniest thing. So Ann and I have the best memory now that we slept in a little tiny closet in the Charlotte Airport together. But I'm telling you, we paid less than we would have paid if we had stayed in a hotel, plus we didn't have to go through security.

KC Wright: Wow.

Jennifer Rothschild: So it was really brilliant.

And then the last thing I'll say about this is this. So that weekend, Ann had told this moving story, and she talking about just difficulties in our families and stuff. And so one of the things she did is tell this old -- I think it was a Spanish or Mexican legend about a white horse. And y'all will have to look it up and read about it. But basically, you know, a family gets a white horse. And then something happens that's very negative, and so the villagers are like, "Oh, the white horse, bad, bad, bad." And then the next week something happens that's good because of the white horse, and the villagers are like, "Oh, good, white horse good."

KC Wright: Right.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, and it goes on and on. And so the point of the legend is we don't know whether the white horse -- only God knows whether it's good or bad, the white horse. So Ann and I were laughing saying that was both a good and a bad white horse, being stuck in this airport.

All right. So all that is the background, and what you're about to hear happened before all of our airport fiasco. But we start with Michael O'Brien, and he's going to start with a really heavy question. But then we go straight in to Tammy Trent -- who is hilarious, by the way -- and she's going to talk about finding love again after losing her husband.

So, you know, KC, we're just going to have links to all of our amazing friends and their websites and their socials so that you 4:13'ers can follow them. But we're just going to go ahead and spill the beans.

Michael O'Brien: All right, this is to Jenn as well. "I believe God is always at my side, but it's been so many years since I've heard from God and his will and purpose over my life. Not sure there's any reason to keep going. I feel like God has been done with me for years now. I am a faithful believer, but feel my life is over."

Jennifer Rothschild: So when I heard this question, I felt I needed to address it, we needed to address it. But as I was listening to Ann, I thought, Thank you, Lord. Whoever wrote that question -- I don't know if you noticed, but Ann Voskamp was speaking directly to you. Yeah, you are a miracle.

But also the reason I wanted to address this, sometimes when we think it's just emotional blues, the severity of those kind of statements says two things to me. You need to tell someone other than us, like a trusted Christian friend, and it might also be very wise for you to see a doctor and tell a doctor those things. Because sometimes we have things going on physically that can just totally disrupt and deceive us mentally. And I would be a good steward of the life that God did give you because you are valuable and a miracle. Tell a friend and go to a doctor, please.

Michael O'Brien: So, Tammy, this is for you. "Did you remarry and/or have children?"

Tammy Trent: So I have not remarried. I dated for the first time about eight years into my loss. It was really good for me because it taught me that I wasn't stuck, that I could love again, and I needed to know that. But it wasn't a forever relationship and -- but it wasn't anything wasted, which I'm so grateful God wastes nothing. I learned so much through that in six months and just -- it just wasn't forever. And there was a huge age difference. I mean, he was 12, so it was really tough. He didn't have a car; he lived at home. You know the story. It was hard.

Jennifer Rothschild: You're so funny. Here's what I want to know. Someone asked me. Have you not remarried because of disinterest, the man hasn't come along, or you could never love anyone as much as Trent? Or do you have an answer?

Tammy Trent: I know I have the capacity to love again. I absolutely do. But I have not met a man that to me measures up to what I had in my life. And so, therefore, I won't -- I know the value of my life. I know the gift that I am. I know it. I recognize it. I believe it. When God says, You're beautiful, you are valuable, I've got something special for you, I took him at his word, so I'm like, I'm hanging on then.

Jennifer Rothschild: I love it.

Tammy Trent: Bring him over here because I'd love to kiss somebody again. So I'm hanging on. But I'm waiting for God's best for my life and I just don't want to settle. I have healed. I've taken a long time to heal all through these years. So why would I now just want to just, Okay, let's just do it. You're super hairy on your back, but I'm okay with that. I have a vision board, girls. I have a vision board. So I'm waiting for God's best.

And here's the thing, Jenn. I feel so fulfilled.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, I can tell.

Tammy Trent: I genuinely feel fulfilled in my life, and I look at what I do have rather than what I don't have. What did God give me? I'm grateful. I'm thankful. Ann, when you talked about that, I'm like, I've really had a heart of, like, God, thank you for giving me so many great years with Trent that I experienced love the way it was meant to be, I believe.

And so if it doesn't come around again, grateful that you gave that to me in my life. But what do I have now? I've got so much adventure, I've got so many other things in my life. So I try not to live in the disappointments of what could have been, but in the hopeful expectations of what could be.

Ann Voskamp: So good. So good.

Jennifer Rothschild: And this is why we love Tammy Trent.

Ann Voskamp: Yes. So good.

Jennifer Rothschild: Thank you.

Michael O'Brien: Okay, Ann, this is to you. "What are your three gifts today?"

Ann Voskamp: Oh, I like whoever asked that question. Well, how about this? Jennifer Rothschild is --

Jennifer Rothschild: Ooh.

Ann Voskamp: Truly. I was in Nashville, and they were asking if I was headed home, and I'm like, No, no, no. I get to go and hear the heart of Jennifer Rothschild. So every room that you're in, everybody else has experienced a profound gift. So thank you, Jennifer and Phil. I was really grateful -- you know, I'm so grateful for the body of Christ.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

Ann Voskamp: I'm so grateful to sit in a room of women -- and kind men, kind men -- who truly are the fragrance of Christ. And I'm really grateful -- I'm really grateful that when people are vulnerable and share their God stories -- like, everybody is walk -- we all need to really encourage and edify each other by sharing. You know, this is a real dark valley, but look how God is working in the midst of that. I find that so -- so I'm just so thankful for Sarah who shared yesterday. I mean, how long were we with each other? And we got out of the vehicle and we talked -- I mean, we had -- she said, "I didn't realize we were going to dive that deeply so quickly." But that's what the body of Christ can be for each other. So I'm just so grateful for you all.

Jennifer Rothschild: Ah, that's beautiful. Thank you.

Tammy Trent: Can I just ask a quick question of Ann? You have great hair.

Ann Voskamp: Oh, I have terrible hair. Oh, my gosh.

Tammy Trent: You do.

Jennifer Rothschild: Men care.

Tammy Trent: Vitamins --

Jennifer Rothschild: Phil is looking at every man's hair. Oh, he has great hair, he has great hair. I'm like, I had no idea men cared so much about hair. They do the older they get.

Michael O'Brien: No comment. Okay.

All right, this is to everybody. "How do you deal with lack of empathy when going through a long -- or a period of trial?"

Jennifer Rothschild: I felt like this question spoke to the weariness perhaps that this person perceives of others when they've been in a long struggle. You know, if somebody's been sick for a long time. Or maybe you have a special needs child and you start to notice that people's empathy at the beginning is huge, but the longer that it goes on, maybe the less you detect the empathy from others. Sometimes it's compassion fatigue.

What do y'all think? How does one -- if you are on the recipient end of what you perceive as a lack of empathy, how do you handle that?

Ann Voskamp: I think it's really -- just being part of the body of Christ. Because not one person can carry someone else's burden. We all have to do that together. So I think in my own life, having covenant friends, the people who are saying, like, "I am in this." But there's a community of six or seven so that we can all come alongside, because we can't -- we are called to lean in and have compassion, co-suffer with someone. But we need a body to do that together. So I think -- have you put yourself in a place that people can come around, but also not to have expectations that only one person can do that. You're going to need a community to do that. And I think being part of a church that's really intentional about do we have a ministry that's reaching out to people who are walking long, hard roads.

Tammy Trent: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: You know, I think that's good. And I was just thinking, as you said that also -- because you mentioned the word "vulnerability." I think sometimes we need to be honest.

Ann Voskamp: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: Sometimes if we look like it's good, people don't realize it's not good. And they think you're good, you're managing your life carrying this burden for 30 years. You got this, you're okay. And so perhaps one does not recognize they need to express or show empathy because you've not been vulnerable enough to say you need it. So that also is a part of being in a community and being honest.

Ann Voskamp: And I wonder if compassion fatigue happens when we're just -- well, we think we have to pour out of ourselves.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

Ann Voskamp: But if we are a people who are filling up with gratitude for the grace upon grace upon grace upon grace that we've been given, then it's actually a joy to pour out because we've been filling ourselves up in the presence of the Lord. So I think for us to give, we have to be in a place that we are receiving from the Lord and sitting in his presence.

Jennifer Rothschild: Good word.

Michael O'Brien: Yeah. I'm not going to add to that.

So everybody, how do -- oh, it's the same question. Change that. To all of us, "How do you keep from getting angry at God?"

Jennifer Rothschild: Does anybody have a -- I know mine. I'm too needy. I need him too much. It would be the most counterproductive, dumb thing I've ever done in my whole life to be mad at the God of the universe, who can supply my every need, loves me more than anybody will ever love me, and I'm going to be mad at him? Because then that builds this barrier between me and him, and I need him too much. Okay, that's the practical.

But I'll be very honest, the deepest part of my heart. I don't feel comfortable being angry at him. I don't feel like he's worthy of anger. I feel like he's worthy of honor. And we can get frustrated and mad and all that. But I put myself on a very high pedestal if I think I have the audacity to scold God or be mad at him. Our life is a miracle, and I want to be grateful for it. So that's just me. And if you're not there, I hope God gives you the grace to get there, because life's better when you love him more than you're angry.

Ann Voskamp: I think in my own life when I have been angry at God, especially -- Monday will be the third anniversary of losing Dad the same way we lost Amy. And anger towards God is so kin to pride. How dare I think that I know a better way than the One who is the Way himself? I might look at the story and say, Well, I would write that very differently, but that would be the pride of exalting myself to God. And the only one who knows the way this story interacts with that story, which changes this story over here, impacts and has ramifications for that story over there, is the One who is the Way himself. Which keeps me in a posture of humility before his sovereignty and trusting that though I might not like the way this story -- this sliver of the story is written here, ultimately he's the author of the whole story that he is writing ultimately for great glory everywhere and my ultimate good.

So for me, when I move towards anger, I'm like, I know what -- that's a posture of pride, and I want to move in a posture of humility and gratitude before the God of the universe who is writing a universal story across the cosmos.

Jennifer Rothschild: Everyone's good.

Ann Voskamp: Yes.

Tammy Trent: Yeah, I've had to go through and process through that in my life too, and been angry. And I can still struggle with moments of when something goes wrong around the house and I'm the only one there. And if Trent were there, he'd be able to figure it out, but it's just me. So I have these moments. My relationship with Jesus is very deep and genuine, so I run to him first, and he's the first I say, "Why don't you fix this for me?" And I'm upset, and why -- you know, I'm in it with him in that moment. I feel like we're having this conversation, he's just listening, and I'm just like ooh, until I finally just fall apart in tears in a ball and just -- I get to that point of just it's -- it's just all right there. It's just right there, God. Everything, you have it all. And I think he meets me there. Well, I know he does. He meets me there every single time. And one, I give myself permission to go through it all, to feel it.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's smart. That's wise.

Tammy Trent: Because when I do, I always find him.

Ann Voskamp: Yes.

Tammy Trent: I find him there. And he reminds me that I'm not alone, that he understands, that he feels with me, that he hurts with me, and that we're going to get through it together, that I do nothing alone outside of his will for my life.

Jennifer Rothschild: Amen.

Tammy Trent: So I don't know if that might help somebody to know, like, you're not alone in that. You're not disqualified because you have a set of emotions. You know, Jesus had the same kind of emotions, you know.

Ann Voskamp: David, the whole Book of Psalms, he's like --

Tammy Trent: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: I'm so glad you said that. That is so true.

Tammy Trent: Honestly, that --

Ann Voskamp: He wants us to wrestle with him. The worst thing would be the apathy or the walking away. He wants us to pour it all out. And he's big enough to take all of the emotions.

Tammy Trent: Exactly. And I believe that for me, I actually find healing in that for my life because we have that conversation together. It always comes back to him and me quick to say, "I'm so sorry, Father. I'm sorry that I just blew it in that moment." And I just feel held. I feel totally valued in that moment in that he loves me so much that he says, I want you to have this moment because I'm going to rescue you every single time, Tammy. And the more that I do, the less that I find that I have those moments.

Ann Voskamp: That's good.

Tammy Trent: So please don't feel disqualified, but process through it. Don't -- the Bible says, "Be angry, but do not sin."

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Tammy Trent: So it doesn't say you can't have these moments, but don't have them in sin and don't let them cause sin in your life. So there's a balance there, girls. There's definitely balance.

Jennifer Rothschild: There's definitely balance. I'm so glad you pulled that out, because that is absolutely true.

Ann Voskamp: Yes, yes. We get to lament.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, we do.

Ann Voskamp: We really get to lament.

Jennifer Rothschild: But all of the lament in Scripture ends up in praise or affirmation of God's character.

Ann Voskamp: It does.

Tammy Trent: Yes.

Michael O'Brien: All that's so good, I don't think I could add any more again. But I will say this one thing, because I think Scripture is -- we need Scripture, because there are things in Scripture that point us. And Job is a really good place to go. He literally says, "The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away. Blessed be the name of the Lord." And then it says, "In all this, Job did not sin or charge God with wrong."

And I think ultimately that should be our hearts. We should fear the Lord in such a way that we know that he's good even in the midst of horrible, horrible tragedy. And I'm not even going to sit here even trying to put myself in your place, Tammy, especially. I can't even imagine life without my wife. So that's a difficult trial that the Lord gave you, and I pray that -- even as last night, you just glorified God. You just continue to glorify God in it --

Jennifer Rothschild: It does. She does.

Michael O'Brien: -- and I praise God for it.

So that being said, "Jennifer, how do you memorize Scripture?"

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, memorizing Scripture?

Michael O'Brien: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: So all of us can do this. I just happen to have to do it because I'm blind. But all of us get to do it, and all of us are capable of doing it. But I will say there is a discipline involved, and a training. It becomes a mindset. Like, I don't listen to anything for the first time without a posture of memorization as I listen. So I think -- I mean, there's a million tips I could probably give you. But I use certain mnemonic devices, I have certain visuals in my mind's eye. I listen, particularly strategically, when I'm hearing anything, so I'm constantly alliterating things that I hear. I will say this. I was just on a podcast which I would highly recommend. It is called Memorize What Matters.

Ann Voskamp: Wow.

Jennifer Rothschild: And my episode is not out yet, but I was so impressed with this guy. And it's all about Scripture memory.

Ann Voskamp: Wow.

Jennifer Rothschild: And when I looked at the other episodes, there are so many different techniques that I was so impressed by. And I told him I'm going to share this everywhere because it's a great resource we need. It's called Memorize What Matters. The guy's first name is Josh. So just affirm by that name when you see it.

But anyway, I spend a lot of time listening to Scripture. Whatever you're familiar with is what you're going to default to emotionally and mentally.

Ann Voskamp: That's good.

Jennifer Rothschild: So that's the main way I start.

Ann Voskamp: So good.

Michael O'Brien: That's good.

Tammy, what's the best advice you can share -- sorry -- to get a widow on the road to healing?

Ann Voskamp: Wow. Great question.

Tammy Trent: Well, I've met many of you. Our journeys are all so, so different and I don't know your backstory. But for me, I knew enough that I needed community. We talk about that a lot. I needed God's people, I needed a healthy church, I needed healthy friends. So immediately -- for one, I came off of the road because I knew I didn't have a whole lot to give. I knew that I needed people to be able to pour into my life and I needed to allow that to happen in my life, for people to give to me. And I have a hard time asking for help, so I knew I needed to put myself in that place. So I surrounded myself with amazing friends. So you've got to have a great circle of support and great friends. For me, it was girlfriends, my sister, my mom, my best friend. And I do a lot of trips. So I plan -- even still to this day all these years later, probably every three months I have something to look forward to.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's so healthy.

Tammy Trent: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's very good for your brain.

Tammy Trent: Yes. And it's the simple stuff. But I have something to look forward to so that when I find myself in a really hard place emotionally, mentally, whatever, I go back to, But you've only got a few weeks. You've got a few weeks and you'll be in Mexico, you'll be in New York City, you'll be in Las Vegas in a week. So I have things to look forward to.

I also got a gym membership. Simple stuff. I knew that when the -- when the sunshine would fall and it became night, those were the hardest times for me. So instead of sitting in my home feeling depressed going through all of the heaviness and the darkness in my life, I made myself pack my bags and go to the gym for three hours. Now, I did not lift weights for three hours. I know it's hard to believe that. I know that's hard. But I would go lift, I would do other things. And I would sit in a sauna and I would talk to people and let them speak into my life. They'd ask me what's going on. And I always took those opportunities to share Jesus with them, because it always led to Jesus. "Well, I'm widowed, I just lost my husband." "Oh, I'm so sorry." I always followed up, "But God has brought great healing in my life." And then it's like, "How has he done that?" So I always look for opportunities. But those are things I did. I just surrounded myself.

So for you, please don't sit too long. Keep moving, keep breathing, whether it's the music, whether it's books. Whatever you have to do, you have to make intentional choices in your life to accept the invitation of healing in your life. And it's going to take work. I think for me, it's been hard. I've had to put in a lot of hours to heal and to choose healing. But I surround myself with good people, good church, good community, and I make plans to keep moving, to keep breathing, and to let joy be the foundation of my life. Things are going to shift, they're going to change, but the joy of the Lord will never change in your life, and it is the foundation of your life. You can lean on it, you can believe in it, and you can trust in it, that joy will come in the morning.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

Ann Voskamp: Thank you, Lord.

Jennifer Rothschild: Both kinds of morning/mourning. M-o-u-r-n-i-n- --however you spell the rest of that.

Well, I've heard Ann Voskamp say, "If you ain't got no joy, you ain't got no strength."

Ann Voskamp: That's right. The joy of the Lord is my strength. If you let something steal your joy, let something steal your strength.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. That's so good. It's such an inspiration.

Now, I know this isn't one of our questions, but I have to ask this real quick. Okay? So one of the things I've noticed about grief for me, perhaps any of you who have grieved -- like with blindness. I grieved, of course, blindness early on. But I have found that I will grieve blindness as I age during different seasons. When I had grandkids, it killed me not to be able to see those grandkids. You know what I mean? So it's like having to renegotiate and renavigate the grief all over again. Does that happen with you?

Tammy Trent: Jenn, I think it does. It's funny. There's certain things that are now happening in my life. For example, at 56 years old, I am now seeing my dermatologist every four months. I found a couple basal cell cancer spots and I've had a few other scares. First time I went in, it was on my head, and they had to cut this, like, two-inch something, and my whole skull was wide open. And he showed me a picture of it and I almost fainted and I -- you know, it was just an awful, awful experience by myself. He stitched me up, and I went into the car and I just cried. I just lost it, because I thought here as I'm getting older, these things that -- you know, it wasn't life-threatening, but I'm facing these scary things alone by myself. So I think as I'm getting older, those things are happening, physical things are happening that I wish I didn't have to go through alone. Now, thank God I haven't gone through ever the feeling that we didn't get to have children. That didn't happen for us.

Jennifer Rothschild: That was not a grief for you that you --

Tammy Trent: I don't know what -- the grace of God. Because I love kids so much, but it didn't happen. But again I started looking at, okay, what do I have then? I've got my nieces and nephews, so I get to pour my life into them. And we have the best relationship. I'm Aunt TT. It's the best. We load up, we head to wherever --

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, I have no doubt you'd be the funnest aunt in the world.

Ann Voskamp: Totally.

Tammy Trent: And I love it. So again, what do I have? I get to pour into my nieces and nephews. When it's their birthdays -- they're, like, 29, 30, 25. Now they're older. And I'll send a text and just speak into their life. This is what God says of your life. I love you. I see the day you were born. Man, it changed my life. I'm so grateful for you. God sees everything. No matter what cloud is hovering over you today, sunshine is on the other side. They're like, Aunt TT --

Jennifer Rothschild: I want to be your niece.

Tammy Trent: But I love it. I have the time to invest in their lives.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's beautiful.

Tammy Trent: So I do go through different things -- thank God I haven't that -- because, again, I try not to stay there too long.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. And that's the wisdom right there.

Tammy Trent: Yes. I can't stay too long. I visit it, but I don't camp out.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Amen.

Michael O'Brien: All right, last question, y'all. This is everybody. "What one thing do you do, besides prayer, to keep you on fire for God?"

Jennifer Rothschild: Start with Ann. Annie V. and then Tammy T. and then Michael O. and then J-Ro.

Tammy Trent: Wow.

Jennifer Rothschild: I just wanted to act as cool as Tammy. I can't rap. But there you go.

Tammy Trent: (Makes rapping sounds.)

Jennifer Rothschild: All right, Ann, what do you do?

Ann Voskamp: How do you follow that up? Like, I got nothing left to say. I don't rap!

I think for me to keep me on fire for the -- actually, reading God's Word and then actually taking Scripture and writing it back to myself, journaling that back to me and personalizing that. So for me, reading His Word while I write -- it always involves a pen with me. Like, I have to read the Word and then write the Word back to me. And I think ultimately when you open up the Word, that's conversation. I'm praying, but he's also speaking to me through his Word. So I think you really have to -- I think when you're thinking about the Lord, it is not about a quiet time. Are you having communion in conversation? And then that communion conversation continues on into the day. So he's not a box that you check off; he's a presence you enter into and keep company with.

Tammy Trent: Ooh, I love that.

Jennifer Rothschild: Wow. Follow that.

Tammy Trent: Yes. No, I love it. And I totally can identify with that. And, you know, it's always been a part of my life, but maybe with the absence of Trent too, like, it's just me and it's just Jesus.

Ann Voskamp: That communion.

Tammy Trent: Totally. Like, he's -- I'm quick -- I talk to him throughout the day all the time. I'm in the house alone. "God, thank you for that." Or Jesus -- I'm like, "Ooh, Lord." I mean, there's just always something there.

Ann Voskamp: I think, though, oftentimes we can think about the cross is just for salvation, atonement, as opposed to seeing that the cross was about communion so that we have at onement with him all of the time --

Tammy Trent: A hundred percent.

Ann Voskamp: -- which is what you're totally living.

Tammy Trent: I have it and I'm fully aware of the presence of God in my life.

Ann Voskamp: Yes, yes.

Tammy Trent: I learned it as a young girl. I'm grateful for it. Because when I stood on the edge of the water, when my whole world changed, that was one of the greatest gifts God gave me, was his presence. I knew and I felt the presence of God, and what it did for me was confirmed that you will be okay. I am here. I am. I am everything. I'm here. It settled everything. And so that is the greatest gift I have, Jenn, that keeps me on fire. I think it's just knowing that I know that I know that I'm in relationship, in community with Jesus and his presence follows me all the days of my life. In the fun -- I know he laughs at me all the time.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, yeah, he does.

Tammy Trent: I know he rolls his eyes and thinks, Not again, Tammy. But we have a great relationship. I love him so much and I couldn't imagine living life without him.

Jennifer Rothschild: I love that. Okay, Michael O.?

Michael O'Brien: Yeah. I think for me, it changes throughout the days. But lately, over the last probably couple years, I -- it's out of the movie Chariots of Fire, where he says, "I feel God's pleasure when I run." I feel God's pleasure when I'm leading God's people in worship. Like, I love to hear the voices singing back to the Lord.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's beautiful.

Michael O'Brien: And it just brings a lot of joy and a lot of -- I was telling Tammy last night, just a lot of weight too. I just feel a weight. But it's a good weight.

Jennifer Rothschild: It's the weight of glory.

Michael O'Brien: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right. Love that all these answers you've heard so far, it all -- the axis is relationship. So I guess for me, one of the things that I have learned is a present -- how do I put it? A present observation. So I love Scripture, I love studying, and I love learning. And that will light my fire. But I have to be careful that the study itself isn't what's lighting my fire.

Ann Voskamp: Yes. That's good, Jenn.

Jennifer Rothschild: Because I love learning so much. But I have recognized -- okay, I'll put it this way, Practicing the Presence of the Lord, Brother Lawrence. I read that book this year and that helped renew my intentionality of every little thing I do. And then this observation, just observing every single thing as a gift from God and his presence with me. So I don't have anything really profound to say compared to what those two did, but it's kind of just the -- yeah, that same...

Ann Voskamp: The awareness of his presence.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right, people. We ran out of time, but the beans are officially spilled. Thank these folks. Good job, y'all. That was so good.

KC Wright: These are my favorite, favorite, favorite, most meaningful moments at Fresh Grounded Faith when you guys spill the beans. What a fantastic conversation we just heard. I feel like I was right there. So I'm so thankful someone's recording these so we can listen to them on The 4:13. And if you felt that way too, like you were right there, you can actually be there too, because on the Show Notes at 413podcast.com/324, you will find a calendar of the Fresh Grounded Faith tour so you can be a part of one near you.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. We want you.

KC Wright: And we'll also have a transcript of this entire incredible deep conversation on the Show Notes, plus we'll connect you to our friends.

Jennifer Rothschild: And I'm going to also include links to the Memorize What Matters Podcast that I was on and Brother Lawrence, the book about Brother Lawrence. There are so many good resources for the family of God.

So remember, whatever you face and however you feel, you can do all things through Christ who gives you strength. I can.

KC Wright: I can.

Jennifer and K.C.: And you can.

KC Wright: Facts, 100%. You can do it.

Jennifer Rothschild: You can do it.

KC Wright: Go, you go.

Jennifer Rothschild: Go.

KC Wright: We are rooting you on today.

Jennifer Rothschild: Cheering you on.

KC Wright: Hey, hopefully we'll see you soon at a Fresh Grounded Faith.

Jennifer Rothschild: At a Fresh Grounded Faith. Ooh, that was good. We sounded like we rehearsed that.