4:13 Podcast: Can I See Past Myself When I Read Scripture? With Tara-Leigh Cobble [Episode 265]

Tara-Leigh Cobble: But I spent most of my life trying to change myself in accordance with what I saw in Scripture, and that wasn't very effective. It was really frustrating. I would find myself either really proud of how well I'd done it or really emotionally distraught and just demoralized by how poorly I'd done it, and it became still about me. But when I changed the lens that I read Scripture to make it about God and not about me and my behavior, those changes started to happen without my even trying sometimes.

Jennifer Rothschild: Scripture is meant to reveal God to us, but sometimes it is hard for us to see him there. What if, though, all you needed was a new lens? We often look to the Bible for advice on how to live. But when that becomes our only focus, we may miss the real point of Scripture, to reveal God and his character to us. Well, on today's episode, trusted Bible teacher and podcaster Tara-Leigh Cobble is going to sharpen our view of Scripture by sharing how to read it. And she'll also share rich theological truth that's going to help you grow in the knowledge of God's character and rest in his goodness. Oh, man, this is going to be so good. So buckle up. What are we waiting for?

K.C. Wright: Welcome to the 4:13 Podcast, where practical encouragement and biblical wisdom set you up to live the "I Can" life, because you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.

Now welcome your host to The 4:13, Jennifer Rothschild.

Jennifer Rothschild: Hi there. Jennifer here to help you be and do more than you feel capable of as you're living, along with me and K.C., this "I Can" life of Philippians 4:13. Since we have Tara-Leigh on today, I can't take this Scripture out of context, so let me remind you people one more time. Philippians 4:13 is not our magic superpower. No. It is our response to God's strength in us. We say "I Can" because he is capable and it is his strength in us.

And you know, when Paul wrote that Scripture and when it was part of the letter to the Philippians, he wrote it in context of being content. He said, I've learned to be content no matter what situation I'm in. Whether I've got a ton or nothing at all, I've learned the secret, and it is this, I can do all things through Christ. And it's true, our people, we can do all things through Christ's strength.

So we're going to talk today about seeing beyond ourselves when we read Scripture. But I'm just going to pause a minute and -- we're not going to see beyond ourselves, K.C., we're going to look right at ourselves. We're going to have a moment. Here we go. We're going to have a moment, everyone, a K.C./Jennifer centric moment.

K.C. Wright: Right.

Jennifer Rothschild: No. Actually, this is a 4:13 family centric moment --

K.C. Wright: Thank you. That's well said.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- because we're going to talk about -- some of you have just left some really lovely reviews, and we just want to acknowledge them.

K.C. Wright: Yes. I want to say thank you to -- recently we had a review left, and it was titled, "A Must Listen." How kind of you.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, that kind was the review? I love that.

K.C. Wright: That's so kind of you. And it says this: "4:13 Podcast has quickly become a favorite in my feed. I'm consistently impressed by the engaging conversations, insightful content, and actionable ideas. I truly learn something every time I listen." And that really speaks to my heart, because -- here's truth -- we don't want to just hear the Word; we want to hear it, receive it, love it, and obey it.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yep. Do it.

K.C. Wright: So you just don't want to hear it, you want to apply it, and so that's what she's saying here. I mean -- Jenn, they keep going on. "Love Jenn and K.C. Such a wonderful encouraging podcast." But let me read this one from Cheerful -- let's see. Cheerful Challenge is the headline here.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay.

K.C. Wright: NikkiDawn3, bless you.

Jennifer Rothschild: Thank you, NikkiDawn3.

K.C. Wright: Uh-huh. Podcast hug right now to you.

Her review was this: "Jennifer and her guests gently share their lessons from life in a way to fling wide open my heart for deep application of God's love."

Jennifer Rothschild: I love it. "Fling wide open my heart" --

K.C. Wright: I know.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- that's so visual. I love that. And you know what, K.C.? I know you're the same way. I learn something new every time also.

K.C. Wright: I know.

Jennifer Rothschild: Because the Lord has blessed us here at The 4:13 with really amazing guests who have so much to offer. And y'all, you don't know, you just -- really have no idea how much your reviews mean. When you acknowledge that something ministered to you, it really ministers to me and K.C.

K.C. Wright: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: So thank you for all those reviews. And you may have noticed -- well, you probably didn't because you're not as obsessed as me and K.C. -- but we're not very far from a thousand reviews.

K.C. Wright: We're so there, yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: And I just think, boy, we got to get a thousand reviews by the end of the year. That would be so fun. That would be so special, just because of what it represents, that many heartfelt messages of hope. So if you haven't left a review, please do. We'd appreciate it.

K.C. Wright: It's so easy.

Jennifer Rothschild: It's easy.

K.C. Wright: You just hit five stars and type something kind.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's right.

K.C. Wright: That's right.

Jennifer Rothschild: It's easy.

And listen, today's guest is no exception, because -- talk about depth and real insight. And I love this conversation, K.C., because Tara-Leigh is correct, sometimes we only read Scripture because we're looking for the spiritual version of self-help. And that's not the point. The point is to see God and his character. And when we're able to see God and his character, then that does reveal our own character and we can grow. I just know we've had Tara-Leigh on before. And you loved her before, you're going to love her again, so we'll get right to it.

K.C. Wright: Tara-Leigh Cobble is the creator and host of The Bible Recap Podcast. Her zeal for biblical literacy led her to create D Group, which is Discipleship Group, which has grown now into an international network of Bible study groups that meet every week in homes, churches, and online. She also writes and hosts a daily radio show called The God Shot and currently lives in Dallas, Texas. Today, though -- hello? -- she's a 4:13er. Again, we're so glad she's back, and we're so glad you're here. We love you. Settle in. Here is Jennifer and Tara-Leigh.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right, Tara-Leigh. I don't know if our listeners know this, but you also go by TLC. Tara-Leigh Cobble, TLC. I love that.

Tara-Leigh Cobble: Thanks.

Jennifer Rothschild: I just think that's so fun. Okay, that's very cool.

Tara-Leigh Cobble: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: Not very many people have such cool initials, so I think we should go with that.

All right. So, TLC, your title of this new book is "The God Shot." Okay? And I think that is also the name of your daily radio show that first launched as a radio show. So I'm curious how this whole God Shot concept started for you.

Tara-Leigh Cobble: Yeah. So for people who do The Bible Recap with us -- that's our read through the Bible in a year plan -- every day we end with what we call the God Shot, which is your snapshot of God and his character from that day's reading. So I know our natural bent is to sort of look for an application point, but we really wanted to focus on finding the character of God. What he loves, what he hates, what motivates him to do what he does. So every day with The Bible Recap, our one-year Bible reading plan, we look for that.

So when I decided to start a radio show that is separate from the God Shot -- or from The Bible Recap, which is the podcast, I thought, how can we tie this in? Because that is -- I mean, that's just what I do. When I teach Scripture, we're just looking for God. And so we knew that this was going to be this bite-sized little chunk, it's going to be about 90 seconds, you know, in the devotional. It's a very short piece of Scripture, but we look for the character of God and what we learn about him in that passage. And so this is just a -- it's a bite-sized Bible Recap. It's just this bite-sized daily bit of God and his character.

And one of the things I love about it is even though it's just a tiny little fraction of Scripture, one of my things -- and I know this is important to you too -- is to not take Scripture out of context.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right. Yeah.

Tara-Leigh Cobble: And so we will take a passage of Scripture, like Matthew 6:25-34, and we will do one verse at a time. So on the first day you're on Matthew 6:25, the next you're on Matthew 6:26. And we're learning to find God's character in every verse of the passages that we're exploring.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, and what you're also doing is you're teaching us and affirming the importance of keeping the context. So I love that.

But you just said 90 seconds, right? That's not much time. Okay? So --

Tara-Leigh Cobble: It's not.

Jennifer Rothschild: Not for Bible study. So I want to know, like, how did you come to choose these particular verses and snapshots of God, and then what is that thought process? Why'd you choose to keep them short? Take us into that process.

Tara-Leigh Cobble: Yeah. Well, one of the things that I wanted to do was I -- when we started the radio show The God Shot, I wanted to do this in context and I wanted to go through every book of the New Testament. So that's what you find in the God Shot book, is -- it's a lot of the same content from the radio show, but it's edited to be more -- you know, if you are reading something, versus saying something in conversation, it's a little bit -- it's tweaked a little differently. And so it's sort of an edited version of what's on the radio, but we wanted to go through every book of the New Testament to show people that God is in there. He's in every book, he's on every page, he's in every verse.

And so we just pulled -- I went through and found what are my favorite sections from each book of the New Testament. And we're actually working on -- one of the projects we have coming up this year is to go through every book of the Old Testament and do that.

Jennifer Rothschild: Wow.

Tara-Leigh Cobble: So it's just sort of a miniature version of The Bible Recap. And one of the reasons we wanted to keep it short was I wanted it to serve as kind of an on ramp for people, people who aren't used to maybe spending more time in the Word. I wanted them to see how rich and dense Scripture is with the beauty and the character of God, and just whet their appetites.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, yeah.

Tara-Leigh Cobble: And be like, look, it's 90 seconds. Look how much you can get out of 90 seconds. Imagine how much you could get out of ten minutes or an hour. And so I just wanted to whet their appetites.

And I have a friend who just messaged me that -- she does The Bible Recap. It felt a little daunting for her eleven-year-old daughter, but her eleven-year-old daughter knows that language of The God Shot from The Bible Recap, she knows we're looking for the character of God. And so her daughter is using The God Shot book as her daily devotional, and I believe it's going to be an on ramp to her daughter maybe reading the Bible next year.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, it's almost like learning to walk before you learn to run or, you know --

Tara-Leigh Cobble: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- just running around the block before you do a marathon.

Tara-Leigh Cobble: Exactly.

Jennifer Rothschild: So I think that's super helpful.

Tara-Leigh Cobble: Thanks.

Jennifer Rothschild: And I also -- just as a writer, I know it is often -- it takes a lot of research and thinking to make something appear simple and make it short. So I just want to commend you for -- I know that was hard work.

You said something that I want to circle back to also, because you've referred so much to finding the character of God in Scripture. Okay. So often when we're reading Scripture, it's our tendency to find ourselves, like, oh, show me how to live, show me what to do, like, you know, the Bible -- and the Bible is for us. Okay? But I'm curious if what you think about this is that the reason we have Scripture, is that the purpose and focus of Scripture, so we can learn how to live? Is that about us?

Tara-Leigh Cobble: Wow. That's a hard question. But I think when I read through the pages of Scripture, what seems clear is that God wants to be known. God wants to be known. And when we behold him and we fall in love with the beauty of who he is, his Spirit does this work in us where he works in us to conform us to his image. And it's this natural outpouring of the relationship to become like what we behold and what we love and by fixing our eyes on him. And so, yes, knowing him does change us.

But I spent most of my life trying to change myself in accordance with what I saw in Scripture, and that wasn't very effective. It was really frustrating. I would find myself either really proud of how well I'd done it or really emotionally distraught and just demoralized by how poorly I'd done it, and it became still about me. But when I changed the lens that I read Scripture to make it about God and not about me and my behavior, those changes started to happen without my even trying sometimes. I started to find myself being more patient toward those around me because I had seen God be patient to the people in Scripture, to me, to the people that he is wooing to himself and he demonstrates this patience. And I see it and I find it beautiful and then it becomes something that his Spirit works out in me.

And so I think that if we look at Scripture primarily as the roadmap for life or the how-to book or your guidebook, we really miss the mark on the beauty and the intimacy of that relationship and we exhaust ourselves in the meantime. It does show us how to live, but I don't think that's the most helpful or beautiful way to read Scripture. What do you think?

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, I think that's super helpful. Because it also reminds me of John when he said to Jesus, you know, it's my hope, my prayer, my desire that you increase and I decrease. And I think what you're talking about is that same spirit. That if we approach Scripture as, okay, Lord, I want you to increase in my mind, I want you to increase in my heart, I want your character to be increased, then there's freedom in our reduction, I think. And in that freedom, then, like you said, it's just his spirit in us; we respond. I think that's really good, Tara-Leigh.

And I think sometimes we have to mindfully -- before we even start to read Scripture -- I don't know if you're this way. I am. I literally have to stop myself and remind myself this is not about me. I've even started doing something recently. So I have this -- I think most of our listeners know that I'm blind, but I do have just -- because of the nature of the disease that I have, I have a little bit of retina in one of my eyes and it catches light. And so I bought this special sunlamp, because my sleep is terrible and I'm trying to remind my body that it's morning. So when I have coffee in the morning, I sit this huge bright lamp in front of me. Like, my husband came in the kitchen the other day, he's like, "Wow. It's like you're on a spotlight." The whole house is dark, and there I sit bathed in light. Anyway, I can barely see it, but there is this -- but I'm aware of it and I can feel it.

And literally the Lord used that for me as this reminder as I begin my Scripture reading that morning, that he is the Light, that this is about him, and it's helped me. Because I like rules. I want to know what the Bible tells me to do so I can do it, you know. And I can read that way. And I like learning, and I want to learn. But just even having that light in front of me has reminded me, no, he is the Light of the World, he is the Light of Scripture, this is about him.

Tara-Leigh Cobble: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: So I guess I'm telling you that also for this reason. For me, this is not one and done. I have to constantly remind myself.

Tara-Leigh Cobble: Oh, same.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right?

Tara-Leigh Cobble: Same.

Jennifer Rothschild: It's not about me.

Tara-Leigh Cobble: The first time I read through the Bible when I was looking for myself, I finished my first trip through the Bible -- I was in full-time ministry. A pastor friend had been answering my questions along the way. And I got to the end of my first trip through the Bible and I did not like God. I didn't like him. I was like -- and to be honest, it shocked me, because most people'd be like, "Oh, yeah, Old Testament is harsh." And I'm like, "No, it was the New Testament that bothered me."

Jennifer Rothschild: Really?

Tara-Leigh Cobble: It was Jesus. And I told my pastor friend, like, "Well, I don't know what to do now, because I'm in full time ministry and I know this book is true." That's the problem, I knew it was true. And I'm like, "This is who he really is, and I don't like him."

Jennifer Rothschild: And what was it that made you feel that way?

Tara-Leigh Cobble: I had a very high view of man and a very low view of God, of his sovereignty, and it chafed against me because I wanted God to owe me something. If I check all the boxes, if I do all the things that Scripture says, why does it go so poorly for all the people who are actually living things out according to your will? Why do all the disciples die these horrible deaths? Why do they not get -- like, why is Paul -- he's like, "Doing your work, Lord," and he gets shipwrecked and imprisoned and beaten and bitten by snakes and, like -- I don't like this.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, yeah.

Tara-Leigh Cobble: And I don't like -- you know, there were some of the things that Jesus said to people that really chafed against me.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, yeah.

Tara-Leigh Cobble: And so my pastor friend said to me, "Read it again, and this time stop looking for yourself and start looking for God." You know, I've been in church since nine months before I was born -- you know that joke -- and, like, three times a week, you know, Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night. Then I went to private Christian school, my family owns a Christian bookstore. I had spent all of my life with this training about how to look for what I need to do to please God, and that was the only way I knew how to read Scripture. And I'm like, "Even if I please you, my life is still going to be horrible. I don't like that. That doesn't sound good to me." And so that was the only way I knew how to read the Bible.

So, like you, I need that daily reminder. So what I started doing was every day I would open up my journal and I would write, like, "My God Shot" at the top of my journal, like, what is -- and it's just a reminder there as I'm taking notes, hey, remember, you're looking for God and his character, you're looking for God and his character. And some days it's these stories I get caught up in, and some days it's these genealogies that I get annoyed by, and some days it's like here are all the boils and all this and I get disgusted by it and I forget to look for God. And some days it's a here's what you do and here's what you don't do and I forget to look for God. So I had to write that at the top of my journal every day, in case I got to the end of my reading and I had forgotten to find God, and I'd have to go back and read it again. But it trained me in how to read Scripture differently. Just like that light that you look at is training you, like, hey, the presence of God, God is the light --

Jennifer Rothschild: That's right.

Tara-Leigh Cobble: -- look for the light, find the light.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right. It's the reminder. And I think it's good for us to say this to each other and for others to hear it. This is not a spiritual platform that you finally reach and then you can look down --

Tara-Leigh Cobble: Exactly.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- at all those peasants who haven't reached it yet. It's not. Our flesh is weak and we constantly need to be reminded to look for God. I really love that about the way God has wired you and taught you, Tara-Leigh.

So I'm very curious now that you look through Scripture through this lens, so you've obviously seen so many characteristics of God in Scripture. So I want to know, like, what are some of your favorite? Like, what are the most startling, enchanting favorite things?

Tara-Leigh Cobble: This is the great irony of the relationship with God. So after that first trip through, when I did not like God and his sovereignty, and I started reading through the second time -- and actually my pastor said, "Hey, that thing you don't like, look for it, because there's more of it -- it's not in just those few passages you thought you saw it -- and look for the goodness of God despite our wickedness." And so that second trip through Scripture, I fell in love with him because of the thing I didn't like the first time. That became one of the most beautiful attributes of his character to me.

And Psalm 145:17 is one of my favorite verses in Scripture. "The Lord is righteous in all his ways and kind in all his works." So not only is everything that he does right and good and best, but it's also kind. And so that really -- what happened for me on that second trip through was when I -- I fell in love with him, like, halfway through the Old Testament, which is not where you expect to fall in love with God, you know. And I just would, like, weep over these pages of his goodness and his sovereignty in these spaces. And it was one of those things that was just such a paradigm shift for me, I was so glad I persevered and so glad that pastor had the wisdom to challenge me in that way.

And that was one of my -- that was just transformative. I went from having what theologians refer to as a low anthropology -- sorry -- I had a high anthropology and a low Christology, so a high view of man and a low view of God, and that transformed me to have a high Christology and a low anthropology. So a low view of man, a right understanding of our depravity and what we deserve, which is hell and death and eternal separation from God, and a right understanding of his abundant kindness and his goodness and his holiness, his set apartness. And the fact that a holy God would choose to set up camp in the literal midst of sinners.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Tara-Leigh Cobble: He's like -- he doesn't say, "Get your act together, I'll be there when you figure it out." He says, "Oh, you are in turmoil, and you are in distress, and you are in the midst of living out wickedness. You need me. I'm coming up to set up camp in the midst of you."

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Well, and I love you even said.

Tara-Leigh Cobble: And then that's what the Spirit does, you know?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes, he does.

Tara-Leigh Cobble: The Spirit dwells in the midst of wicked sinners and conforms us to the image of God.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, and I know that's what you were referring to, this dwelling among us. Literally that Greek in the New Testament is "set up camp," "set up a tent." He's, like, dwelling among us. What a kind God. That's beautiful. So may we all have that right estimate of ourselves. A high view of God and a right estimate, which is a low view, of man. Which really does lift our self-esteem in the best ways when we consider the kindness of God, so -- all right.

Tara-Leigh Cobble: It does, which is crazy to me.

Jennifer Rothschild: Doesn't it? I know.

Tara-Leigh Cobble: It's crazy that when you rightly view yourself, it's usually lower than you would esteem yourself on a human realm, but it engages you in this much more beautiful relationship. I don't think poorly of myself, but I think rightly of myself.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right. And then when you recognize who you really are, it is astounding the value and kindness that God puts upon us. And bottom line is, Tara-Leigh, self never satisfies self. So when we're seeking that satisfaction for our esteem or for our understanding, whatever, self will never satisfy self. Only God will satisfy us. So that's what you're teaching us in this, which is helpful.

And so this will be a three-part question. Okay? We're just going to get slightly objective here. So what does the Bible teach us -- you know, now that we're talking about his characteristics, what does the Bible teach us about God being our source of peace, our source of joy, and our source of truth? Okay? So three things. What does it show us about him being our source of peace, our source of joy, and our source of truth?

Tara-Leigh Cobble: One of the names of God is Peace, Prince of Peace. And Jesus -- once I came into a greater understanding of the way that he works in his ability to be outside of time, when I'm in a challenging situation and I don't know what the future holds, there is a God who is outside of time who has already -- according to David, all of my days were written in this book before one of them came to be. And that is a good God who has come to remind me that in the chaos, he's on the other side of it and he's carrying me through. He is my peace.

Jennifer Rothschild: Ooh, that's good.

All right, joy, tell me about joy.

Tara-Leigh Cobble: Joy. You know, David -- gosh, I'm going to just keep knocking on David here in a good way, like, hitting the David verses. Psalm 16:11, "In your presence there is fullness of joy. At your right hand are pleasures forevermore." Fullness of joy forevermore, I want that. I want the joy. Every day with The Bible Recap and The God Shot, we end every day with, "He's where the joy is."

Jennifer Rothschild: Yep.

Tara-Leigh Cobble: "He's where the joy is." And I'm after the joy, Jennifer. That is what I want. Like, I want the joy. And Scripture tells me he's it.

And truth. He is the way, the truth, and the life. He is the truth. He doesn't just have the truth, he doesn't just speak the truth; he is the truth. He is the one that unlocks that for us in our hearts, helps us come to an understanding of the truth. That's one of the things he says that the Spirit does, is help us come into a full understanding of the truth and understand the things that he's spoken, remind us of the things that he's spoken.

And so peace and joy and truth, I don't have those apart from him. It's kind of like looking at a picture of a steak on a restaurant's website versus going and eating it. That's the difference. Like, the peace and joy and truth that I have access to apart from God, I have picture of it, but I don't actually have it.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Tara-Leigh Cobble: And I can know what it looks like, and I can long for it, but I can't access it.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Wow.

Tara-Leigh Cobble: And I can only access it through him, through the finished work of Christ on the cross.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. So the reason I asked you that question is because I wanted you to illustrate this last question that I'm going to ask you. Okay? Because I know there have been listeners going, okay, wow. Like, I just read the Bible because -- well, I didn't realize I was reading it to make it about me, but I was. Okay? And now I realize I barely skim the surface, and she knows so much and -- so I know that there are some folks right now who this longing in them has been awakened. And, y'all, it's a longing. It's nothing to feel -- well, you have missed out, but it's nothing to feel guilty about. You knew what you knew. And so now you're being exposed to maybe a better way to read Scripture.

And so, Tara-Leigh, that leads me then to this last question. Because someone might have just always read the Bible, but never have gone deep, maybe because they didn't want to or they didn't know how, how can they begin diving deeper into Scripture, like, even in just a very small way? Where can they start?

Tara-Leigh Cobble: Well, I would love for them to -- if you want a bite-size version, The God Shot is there, and you can listen to the audio for free online. You can find The God Shot on podcast apps, you can find it on the radio stations that we're on, and I can sort of help train you in that. Or The Bible Recap is another place. And even if you never do The Bible Recap or The God Shot, we have these prep episodes for doing The Bible Recap that will help you, that would equip you with the tools that you need, like, some reminders, some -- there are five prayers I pray every day before I read the Bible, there are questions that I ask when I'm reading the Bible, and I walk through those things in those prep episodes. So even if you never do The Bible Recap with us, if you listen to those prep episodes or watch those videos on YouTube, that will help set you up for success in whatever way you are reading the Bible and give you some tools to help you in whatever path you choose to get to know God better.

K.C. Wright: Yes and Amen.

Jennifer Rothschild: Amen.

K.C. Wright: Again, she is right on.

Jennifer Rothschild: She is right on.

K.C. Wright: And the good news is this: you can get her book. Tara-Leigh's devotional is at Jennifer's Insta right now @jennrothschild or at the Show Notes at 413podcast.com/265.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, there you heard it, our people. You can go deeper. You can look for and you can see God in His Word because it is all about him. So get her book, as K.C. said. Or until you do, we will also have a link to her Bible Recap podcast at the Show Notes so that you can get started right now being in the Word. We need the Word, our people. And you can do this because you can do all things through Christ who gives you strength. I can.

K.C. Wright: I can.

Jennifer Rothschild: And --

K.C. Wright: You can.

Jennifer Rothschild: You sure can.

K.C. Wright: You really can.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, you know what else I should have told you?

K.C. Wright: What?

Jennifer Rothschild: Don't forget we've got the Dwell Bible app. We'll have that on the Show Notes too.

K.C. Wright: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: 413podcast.com/Dwell if you want to get a free trial period. I love my Dwell Bible app. Every morning I listen to Gregory read me Scripture with the most beautiful South African accent.

K.C. Wright: It is the best way to go to sleep too.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, that's true. End your day, start your day.

K.C. Wright: Yeah. I mean, I like to get that fan going; I mean, I like my room cold; and I've got my app blaring. Go to bed listening to the Scripture filling your ears, filling your heart as you sleep.

Jennifer Rothschild: I love it.

K.C. Wright: There you go.