4:13 Podcast: Can I Pray the Psalms to Grow Closer to God? With Leslie Leyland Fields [Episode 319]

Leslie Leyland Fields: I think the idea of praying through the psalms is a very familiar idea, but I recognize there's some really big pieces to this that we're missing if we just simply open our Bibles and then just, you know, read these prayers out loud. I mean, that is not what the Jewish people did. They knew intuitively, because we are wired this way, that they needed to bring their whole selves before God. So to bring your whole emotions before God -- we just spoke about that -- this incredible honesty, the lament, the grieving, even the accusations about God. God, where are you? Why are you so far from me? Why don't you answer me? Right? So we see that whole emotion, but we also need to bring our whole bodies.

Jennifer Rothschild: Don't you want to experience the presence and the love of God through every single joy and struggle in your life? Do you long to enrich your prayer life and grow closer to God? Well, the psalms can help you do just that. It can guide you into fresh encounters with God. And today's guest, author Leslie Fields, is going to show you how. You're going to learn how the psalms invite you to talk with God, and you'll be inspired when you understand how the Living Word of God can affect your whole self, mind, spirit, and body. So let's get this party started.

K.C. Wright: Welcome to the 4:13 Podcast, where practical encouragement and biblical wisdom set you up to live the "I Can" life, because you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.

Now, welcome your host, my (singing) Soul --

Jennifer Rothschild: (singing) Soul --

K.C. Wright: -- Sister, Jennifer Rothschild.

Jennifer Rothschild: That was pretty good for two white people trying to act like we got soul, because we don't.

Listen, y'all, we are happy you are here. I'm Jennifer, and that was K.C., and our goal is to help you be and do more than you feel capable of as you're living this "I Can" life of Philippians 4:13. It is absolutely true that whatever it is God has called you to do and be, you can do that through Christ's strength. You don't have to worry about your own; you just yield, surrender, and all you have to do is believe the truth that it is Christ in you who empowers you. So you be and do exactly what God has called you to be and do, because that's why you're here. That's why we're all here.

And that's what Leslie's doing today. God has really called her and gifted her to communicate His Word, and she's talking about the psalms and how we can use the psalms to draw close to God. And this is near to my heart. Obviously, K.C., you know this, because I've written a Bible study on Psalm 23. And my Psalm 23 Bible study -- I'll have a link to it on the Show Notes, by the way. But if you've never read that or done that study, you may not know that there are seven video teachings with it. They're free in the back of the book. You can access them.

But here's the thing. We shot a lot of the B-roll at a farm where there were sheep.

K.C. Wright: Ooh.

Jennifer Rothschild: It was so sweet, K.C. And the day that I showed up to film, there was a baby lamb born the day before. So there's a lot of footage of me holding this sweet little one-day-old baby lamb Oh, my gosh.

K.C. Wright: So sweet.

Jennifer Rothschild: But what you don't hear is the mother just off camera saying, (making sheep sound), like get -- you get that baby out of your -- she did not like it. She was an angry mama. But anyway, it was the sweetest thing. And just walking with these sheep.

And what was fun too, K.C., is -- the crew wanted me to, like, walk with the sheep. And they'd be walking with me just fine. And then when the drone would go over us to catch the footage, just the sound of it would scare the sheep. I mean, they're scared out of everything --

K.C. Wright: Oh, yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- and they would run off. So it was hard for -- so when and if you see this video footage, you'll be amazed to see how smooth and peaceful it all looks. Because believe me, it was not peaceful when we were shooting it. I mean, it was for me. Holding that baby lamb was the sweetest thing ever. But I think the sheep were stressed out about it. But it was so -- there's nothing like a baby lamb.

K.C. Wright: No. And God calls us sheep. That's heaven's --

Jennifer Rothschild: Exactly.

K.C. Wright: -- little joke, right?

Jennifer Rothschild: I know.

K.C. Wright: We're sometimes scared of everything --

Jennifer Rothschild: We are.

K.C. Wright: -- but we have a Good Shepherd.

Back at Easter we had, you know, all the things: the baptism service, the face painting for the kids, the petting zoo, which we had baby lambs.

Jennifer Rothschild: You did?

K.C. Wright: Yes. We have a lady that attends our church, and she has baby lambs.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, my goodness.

K.C. Wright: But getting those little critters, I tell you what, in the truck --

Jennifer Rothschild: No, it's not easy.

K.C. Wright: -- to get in the pin, I mean, this is real work, people. Ministry is spelled w-o-r-k. And when you're chasing the lambs, you're like, Really? How did I get here?

Jennifer Rothschild: I got a Master in Divinity just so I could chase little lambs. But doesn't it give you a greater appreciation for our Shepherd? I mean, honestly.

K.C. Wright: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: Honestly, we are sheep. We are sheep.

So anyway, that's just one Psalm. We're talking about Psalm 23 obviously. That's just one Psalm. Leslie is really going to just give us a good global understanding of how God designed the psalms, how we can use them as part of our prayer life. And y'all are going to love it, so let's introduce Leslie.

K.C. Wright: Leslie Leyland Fields is a speaker, teacher, and author of 14 books. Leslie has taught extensively, including as a founding member of Seattle Pacific University's MFA program. Currently she leads faith and writing retreats around the world and directs the Memoir Masterclass, a large online community for writers of spiritual memoirs. She lives on Kodiak Island in Alaska during the winters and spends her summers on a wilderness island where she works with her family in commercial salmon fishing.

You know, when you read these bios --

Jennifer Rothschild: I know, right?

K.C. Wright: -- you're always thinking -- well, I am -- I live a lame life. Today's goal is a Costco trip because we're out of groceries, and she's running a commercial salmon fishing joint --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes. Right? I know.

K.C. Wright: -- and lives in Alaska.

Jennifer Rothschild: I know.

K.C. Wright: Okay, wow.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. Well, you be you, K.C.

K.C. Wright: Well, praise the Lord. That's why I relate to the psalms, because he's up, he's down, he's up, he's down, which is totally me.

Pull up a chair, there's room at the table for you. Here's Leslie and Jennifer.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right, Leslie. First thing I have to ask -- okay? -- I read that you are in Alaska. And I happen to be one who's very enamored by -- and I think lots of people are very interested in the lure of living in Alaska. So we want the inside scoop. Like, I read even you work with a family business maybe with commercial salmon? So give us kind of a picture of what your life is like when you're not on a podcast.

Leslie Leyland Fields: Yeah. Well, I'm sitting here in my office overlooking the ocean. So I live on two islands in Alaska. And in the wintertime, I'm on Kodiak Island. So it's a big island in the Gulf of Alaska. It's where the Kodiak bear lives. That's what we're famous for. There are like 4,000 bears on this island. And then in the summer, I move to a tiny little island, just my family, where we commercial fish for salmon. So in the midst of this Alaskan life -- of course, I am a writer and a speaker and a teacher. And it kind of -- it's weird, but it kind of all fits.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, it's interesting. It makes you very interesting. And I would also think that you probably have some interesting perspective, because we learn so much from God's creation, and just even the industry that your family does. So I just think it's so fascinating. And I wanted our listeners to know that because I just thought it was so interesting.

But what I really wanted to talk to you about is your book. Okay? So let's go to your book. So the title of your book is "Nearing A Far God." And I find that an interesting title because of the word "far." So I want to know why you chose that title. Because do you think that God may feel far away to people?

Leslie Leyland Fields: Yeah. You said it exactly the right way. Is God far away from people? No. Do we feel like he's far from us? Yeah, I think so. For lots of reasons. One is this whole matter of prayer. I feel like a terrible prayer. Right?

Jennifer Rothschild: Me too. Yeah, I'm with you.

Leslie Leyland Fields: Yeah, yeah. I mean, we know that in the New Testament it says, you know, pray without ceasing. And I think, do I do that? No. And so many times I can't pray. You know, I've asked people in my Facebook feed or in my classes, you know, do you -- how is prayer for you? Do you feel like you're good at prayer or that -- connected to God all the time, and so many people say no. It's like it's the worst thing in my life, you know. It feels like -- does prayer make any difference? Sometimes we'll pray and then the opposite of what we pray for happens. So we might not trust God.

Or maybe we don't have a relationship with our own earthly father. I was estranged from my father. I could not trust my father for almost my entire life, so it's hard to trust a heavenly father. And we know in our head that there's a God out there who says that he loves us, but a lot of times we just have a hard time attaching to him, connecting to him in ways that are honest and real. And so, yeah, I think for a lot of us there are times when God really feels far away.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. And it's interesting -- I'm glad you also pointed out that word "feels," because we know he's not, but he does feel that way. And one of the things that you're -- sometimes he feels that way.

So one of the things that is very powerful about your book is you kind of give us a little bit of a -- some guideposts, a little bit of just help in knowing how to kind of break through some of those things you mentioned that make prayer hard. And it is intimidating for a lot of people. So since you focus on praying the psalms, I want to ask you right up front, how do the psalms draw us into dialog with God?

Leslie Leyland Fields: Well, I think one of the first things that they show us is, hey, come as you are, no matter where you are.

So, Jennifer, there's this really interesting moment -- we go to the psalms, you know, it's 150 prayer songs that have been -- really it's kind of the prayer and songbook of God's people for the last, like, 3,000 years. And when we look at the first psalm -- so the editors chose Psalm 1 to be the -- chose that psalm to be the first psalm. And that first psalm gives us this incredible image of what a life close to God looks like. And it's this image of a tree. Remember that tree that's planted by the river? And this tree is rooted in that river bank, and its leaves never wither, and it yields its fruit in its season, and it prospers in all it does. That's a picture of who we can be. And, you know, that picture, that tree, takes us back to the Garden of Eden, to the Garden of Eden when we were in perfect fellowship with God.

And the Book of Psalms is saying, hey, here's the open gate. You want to be that tree, rooted and fruited in the Lord himself and in His Word and in the Lord, taking delight in God's Word? Okay, come through the gate. Come through the gate. These psalms are going to show you what that looks like and what that sounds like. So that's what we have. This is a sort of roadmap into an intimate life with God.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, I love that. I love it too because it's such a physical, tangible, concrete image that we can attach to. And that's such a beautiful picture.

And also, I couldn't help but think, Leslie, that there's a tree at the end of the Bible too, that Tree of Life. And what a beautiful picture. So what I love about the psalms also, as you said, is you can just be honest. I mean, if the Bible were truly edited, they would have taken out some of the rants and raves of David when he was upset. You know what I'm saying? Some of it's like a bad Facebook rant. And so it is an invitation to just let's come as we are.

Leslie Leyland Fields: I'm sorry. You're just making me laugh. I'm sorry.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, no, I'm glad. But it's true, though, isn't it? When you think of some of the psalms, I mean, it is, it truly -- that's what it reminds me of.

But -- okay. In your book, though, you give us some ancient practices that are far better than, like, just ranting and raving. Which I thought were so interesting, and I want you to unpack them. Okay. So there's some ancient practices of movement, like physical movement, and posture, physical posture, that can actually help us move into worship, heighten our worship, deepen our attachment to God, give us that sense of, you know, maybe an awareness of his presence. So I would love for you to give our listeners an idea of what these practices are and, like, how can it make a difference as we're praying?

Leslie Leyland Fields: Yes. Yeah, such a great question. And that's what -- the subtitle of the book is "Praying The Psalms With Our Whole Selves," and this is the key. I think the idea of praying through the psalms is a very familiar idea, but I recognize there's some really big pieces to this that we're missing if we just simply open our Bibles and then just read these prayers out loud. I mean, that is not what the Jewish people did. They knew intuitively, because we are wired this way, that they needed to bring their whole selves before God. So to bring your whole emotions before God, we just spoke about that, this incredible honesty, the laments, the grieving, even the accusations about God. God, where are you? Why are you so far from me? Why don't you answer me? Right? So we see that whole emotion.

But we also need to bring our whole bodies to the psalms. And so I'm encouraging -- my book really walks you through a couple of things that I think are going to be new for people, and that is not just reading the psalms out loud, but actually writing out the psalms. So taking a pen in hand -- hands on the keyboard doesn't work. A pen in hand and writing out the psalm. So we're taking the Word of God and we're taking it in through our optic nerves. Then it's traveling down our hand to the page, to our body. We are writing out. The Word of God is moving through our body onto the page, and now we're seeing it concretely on the page. And so this practice of writing out.

Another part to this is -- the psalms are not the last word on praise or the last word on lament or the last word on Thanksgiving. They're the first words. They're to teach us not just to speak these prayers, not just to write them out, but they're invitations for us to write our own story within the psalms. The psalms tell the Israelite's story, the story of God's people, and the psalms are an invitation for us to speak our story back to God as well. It's an open door for us to find our voice within the psalms.

Jennifer Rothschild: So are you encouraging, then, not just the actual verbatim writing, but then to go a step further and personalize? Like, what does that look like?

Leslie Leyland Fields: Yes, absolutely. I actually have an acronym, NEARING, and each one of those letters gives a way to personalize and step into God's Word more holistically with our own voice, with our body, with our story. And let me give an illustration of that for a moment.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, yeah.

Leslie Leyland Fields: So when David -- you know, David wrote half of these psalms, 73 of these psalms. And he wrote just amazing psalms, like praise psalms. Many of the psalms are praise psalms. Did David write one psalm of praise? Did one psalm of praise cover everything? No. Every time David experienced some incredible deliverance from God or experienced -- you know, the Holy Spirit gave him just these moments of insight and joy -- he wrote another psalm. He wrote another praise psalm. There's not one lament psalm; there's a bunch of lament psalms. Because each time he needed a lament psalm, each time he was in a particular circumstance, he cried out from that circumstance. And he's crying out to bring God into his reality, to call God into his reality.

Well, that is a model for us. David did not write all the praise psalms. Like, we're not done, we're not done with the praise psalms. God intends for us to learn through the psalms how to praise him and then to praise him with our own words, with our own story, with our own circumstance.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's cool.

Leslie Leyland Fields: It is. It kind of blows the psalms wide open, and I think it's very much what God intended.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, that's why you call them first words, not last words. And it also reminds you that they're there for our guidance. I mean, yes, we can pray Scripture to the Lord, but they also can teach us to pray our hearts to the Lord. So I would also love it -- because you mentioned this. And I know if I'm thinking it, so are our listeners. So in your book you share the NEARING acronym to help us understand how to draw close to God. And, of course, we don't want a total spoil alert because we want people to get this book. But can you give us an idea of what N-E-A-R-I-N-G stands for?

Leslie Leyland Fields: Yes, yes, I can. So the first N is Notate. And that's write it out, to write it out by hand. And when we do that, it immediately calls upon both sides of our brain when we write.

E is Express. So use your voice, your body, gestures, movements. And the book provides -- for those of us who might be a little constrained with our body movements, the book even provides some suggestions for movements.

The A is Amplify. So add your response, your circumstance, your witness to the psalm. Because, Jennifer, the psalms are meant to be a dialog with God. They're meant to be a dialog. So answer back. Answer back.

The R is kind of obvious, but super important. Read to understand the original psalm in its context. And read different versions if that's helpful. And often it is.

I, Identify. Personalize the psalm to you. And I tell you, that one step -- two steps alone, writing out the psalm and then putting your name in the psalm and turning that to I, incredibly powerful.

The N, the second N, is New Testament. Add New Testament versus of fulfillment.

And then the last one, the G, is Gather. So many of the psalms were written to be sung in gatherings, in a communal context, in a corporate context. And there's, you know, so many reasons for that. But when we gather and when we speak and share our psalms with one another together, there's this whole other explosion of meaning and power and significance.

Jennifer Rothschild: I love that. I appreciate you going through those. And I know that our listeners -- we're also giving away one of Leslie's books. But if you didn't get to write that all down, that's okay, because you can buy her book. And we will have a link to it on the Show Notes.

But when you mention gathering, too, Leslie, I remember reading one time a study about the power of singing and how when you actually sing in a group with others, like, your cortisol is reduced, your endorphins shoot up. I mean, it's supposed to be -- your brain loves it, which is a different experience than just singing alone. Even though singing alone is still helpful, there is something powerful that happens in a gathering of like-minded. And I think what you're describing with the psalms and praying the psalms together happens in the same way.

And because you've alluded a little bit already to the brain, let's just talk for a second about that. You mentioned something about -- when you said notate, that the writing engages the left and the right side of the brain. Okay. So do you know why that is, why that is different than just reading it out loud or typing it?

Leslie Leyland Fields: I think it would take a real neuroscientist to really answer that specifically. But this book is -- there is some neuroscience in there, because our understanding of how the brain works and how we function as human beings is just exploding right now. And it's really, really exciting. And I think there are lots of us who are looking back at how we used to -- what we used to believe about spiritual formation, and we used to believe it's all about knowing God. And even our idea of prayer, you know, it's this whole sort of neck up theology of prayer, and it's all about what you know in your head. And we're sort of looking back and saying, okay, what's happened here in the last 20 or 30 years in our church? How is it in our churches? How is it that we've had all this knowledge about God, but it hasn't impacted how we live and how we feel and how we actually connect, attach to God?

And so I think the psalms are intended -- they are whole brain, whole body by their very nature and purpose, and they are meant to connect us, attach us to God with all that we have and all that we are. You know, God says, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength." Okay, it means everything. It means everything.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Your whole self, yeah.

Leslie Leyland Fields: Your whole self. And I think the psalms -- out of every book in the Bible, the Psalms is the book that really shows us how to live that out, how to walk that out, and what that looks like and what that sounds like.

Jennifer Rothschild: I remember reading one time -- and I may attribute this incorrectly. If I did somebody, I'm sure, will let me know. But Calvin, I believe, was the one who said that the psalms are the anatomy of the soul. And that is really what you're describing.

And so this is going to be our last question, Leslie, because I am fascinated by this. I love God's Word, and I believe, as Scripture says, it is alive and living and active. And so that's why it gives us life. It's not dead. So it's life on life. And so let's say someone is listening right now and they are like, okay, this is what I need. You know, my anxiety is sky high. My loneliness is making me tank. I feel disoriented when it comes to Scripture, and prayer totally freaks me out. And so I'm going to get Leslie's book, but it might take a couple of days. So what can someone do, when it comes to just the Word of God in the Book of Psalms, after this podcast ends, to help them recognize that God is not far away and they can draw near to him?

Leslie Leyland Fields: Yeah. I do honestly hope that people get the book, because I will walk you through this process. And I have done this with many, many people and I know it's worked for me. And then over the last 20 years, I've been engaged in this practice of writing out the psalms, of expressing them using my body. And I tell you what, Jennifer, it has penetrated my heart and my mind. It has brought God so near. It has brought me into dialog with the Living God, who -- I recognize he is right here. He is not far away; he is right here. And he wants to speak to me and he wants me to speak to him.

So the psalms are this invitation -- he's our Father, he says, I want to hear from you. Daughter, son, you're mine. I love you. I gave up everything for you. I gave up my own Son because I want to be with you. And then the --we say, well, I don't know how to do that. The psalm will show us. And they'll take us into this incredibly intimate relationship with our Father, and he will be so, so near to us.

Jennifer Rothschild: He is near to you, my friend. He is as near as the air that you breathe. He is not a God who is far off, as Paul said. No. He is near to you. And he designed the psalms like a highway to help you draw near to him.

K.C. Wright: So good. So I want this book, because I'm a book nerd.

Jennifer Rothschild: And this is a good one.

K.C. Wright: You can get her book. You can actually win it by simply going to Jennifer's Instagram. Which I really encourage you to follow. There's daily encouragement, several times a day actually, @jennrothschild. You can enter to win this book. And by now, you know the drill. You can also get there through the Show Notes at 413podcast.com/319. And you can read the transcript there too.

Plus, if you don't win the book, we'll have a link for you to buy one. Yeah. And seriously, purchase one. You could tell Leslie is a gifted teacher, and she will really help you with this method of praying the psalms.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yep, what he said.

All right, our people, we are done for today. But we will be back here next week, so make sure that you are too. And remember, you can draw near to the Lord because you can do all things through Christ who gives you strength. I can.

K.C. Wright: I can.

Jennifer Rothschild: And you can.

K.C. Wright: Hey, I know that she was speaking about praying the psalms. But I found this so interesting, that on the night before Jesus died, Jesus was sharing the Passover meal, you know, with his disciples, and Matthew tells us they sang a hymn. And Passover tradition tells us that the last song they would have sung was probably Psalms 118. So I know she's talking about praying the hymn, but -- you'll have to spend some time in Psalms 118 today, because the psalm tells us that Jesus reminded himself of the ultimate victory coming, victory over death. And that's a -- man, I read that psalm just this morning, and just thank God for the Word.

Jennifer Rothschild: Man, now you're making me curious. We need to... Okay, everybody, it's time to go. We got to read Psalm 118.