4:13 Podcast: Can I Persevere When I Want to Quit? With Nick Connolly [Episode 297]

Nick Connolly: Sometimes there are circumstances that I just look at and I'm like, man, I do not see the other side of this. And I heard a pastor say one time that any time we're filled with worry or anxiety, it's imagining the future without God in the mix. And so I think sometimes the circumstance becomes larger than my outlook, and sometimes that makes me want to quit. And then oftentimes, I think we all respond to resistance differently. And for me, my own personal flavor of response is that I get really discouraged, I get really defeated, and if I am not careful, I can slip into despair.

Jennifer Rothschild: With each wave of resistance in life, it can be so tempting to just simply give up, to quit the calling, to leave the relationship, to walk away from all the dreams that God may have placed on your heart. But according to today's guest, author and pastor Nick Connolly, God has not let of you, so you don't want to let go either. Today let's join Nick in the journey to choose persistence in the face of resistance. Nick is going to get real practical and show you how to befriend resistance, outlast discouragement, and choose persistence where it matters most. So do not give up yet. At least wait till you listen to this whole podcast. Okay? Here we go, K.C.

K.C. Wright: Welcome, welcome to the 4:13 Podcast, where practical encouragement and biblical wisdom set you and I up to live the "I Can" life, because you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.

Now, welcome your host, Jennifer Rothschild.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, hey, friends. We're glad you're with us. We're having a good day here in the podcast closet. Better now that you have arrived. I'm Jennifer, here to help you be and do more than you feel capable of as you're living the "I Can" life of Philippians 4:13. And you know who that was. K.C. Wright --

K.C. Wright: Hey, hey.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- my Seeing Eye Guy.

And, K.C., you did not get to come upstairs today. We came straight into the closet because K.C. may or may not have been running late. Anyway, we won't discuss that.

K.C. Wright: I was stuck at a stop light. It wasn't my fault. But, yes, I was late. I'll just own it.

Jennifer Rothschild: It's okay.

K.C. Wright: Five minutes.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. It's really not a big deal.

K.C. Wright: But I like to be prompt and on time.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. And I like to give you a hard time anyway, so...

K.C. Wright: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. But -- so here's what you missed by not going upstairs. The fragrance of my new candles.

K.C. Wright: Ooh.

Jennifer Rothschild: You know, I told you I've been try to make candles?

K.C. Wright: I've seen them on socials --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes, because --

K.C. Wright: -- but I haven't smelt them.

Jennifer Rothschild: No, you haven't. And I'm telling you, my coffee would smell the best, of course, because I'm such an addict. But people have been asking me on social media, "Are you selling them?" I'm like, "No, I'm not." I cannot.

Okay, I have to tell you the funniest thing. So I have been reading through -- trying to read through the Bible in 90 days. Okay? And in doing so -- and I'm enjoying it, by the way. But in doing so, of course, I in the early books, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and so, you know, God's telling Moses here's how the tabernacle is supposed to be set up, all the things. All right. So my friend Kenzie is helping me make these candles. And so I, like, text her in exuberance one morning this past week, because I had read -- and now I can't remember. I think it was Exodus -- I don't know, somewhere in the middle of Exodus -- where God is saying here's what the incense should smell like. It should have this oil and this oil and this oil and this oil. And so I text her immediately. I stop at that verse, I text her. I said, Listen, we are going to make Sabbath candles, and this is what they're going to smell like. We're going to find out what the contemporary equivalent of these oils are. We are going to make this. She writes back, she goes, "I love this idea." And then I keep reading, and then the very next verse says basically, if I were doing the King James, Thou shalt not make this oil for personal gain. It shall only be holy to the Lord. And I was like, Kenzie --

K.C. Wright: Scratch it.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- never mind. But I told her, I said, No, listen, we could do this. Because -- what a cool idea, K.C., to make a candle that smells like that and light it as you're praying in the morning. It is holy unto the Lord.

K.C. Wright: It is.

Jennifer Rothschild: Wouldn't that be sweet? I haven't done it yet. I have not done it. And any of you, if you've out there done anything like that, I'd love to know about it. But isn't that a cool idea?

K.C. Wright: It is. And you are such a creative. I'm just laughing at when you even have time to make a candle.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, I don't. But I love it. You know why I love it? Because it makes you slow down. You do not rush through pouring hot wax.

K.C. Wright: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: And I love blending the fragrance oils. Oh, my gosh, K.C., I love it.

K.C. Wright: Well, you are my soul sister because we love smells.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes, we do.

K.C. Wright: I mean, just yesterday I went to that store. What's it called? Beth Bad Beyond? I don't know.

Jennifer Rothschild: Beth Bad & Beyond? No, that's not what it's called.

K.C. Wright: No. Bath & Body?

Jennifer Rothschild: Bath & Body Works.

K.C. Wright: Bath & Body. Okay.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, my gosh, yes.

K.C. Wright: Anyway, they got me as soon as I walked in. They're like, "Okay, if you buy three soaps, you get one free."

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, yeah.

K.C. Wright: And then I love the room spray bottles.

Jennifer Rothschild: Those are my favorite because they're concentrated.

K.C. Wright: And they have a Christmas wall, so --

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh. See, I use that all year long.

K.C. Wright: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: I always get them after the holidays and use them all year long.

K.C. Wright: So even though I'm a man with a beard, I love good smelly things. And that's the best part about coming to the Rothschild home. I'm telling you, this house, ooh, you walk in and you're like, man, it's just beautiful in here. My nose hairs are dancing.

Jennifer Rothschild: Or if you have allergies, you're like, oh, can we just visit on the front porch?

K.C. Wright: It's never overwhelming --

Jennifer Rothschild: It's not. It's no.

K.C. Wright: -- I promise you.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right. Well, we're going to talk today to Nick Connolly. Speaking of not overwhelming, this conversation will not be. And, in fact, if you're feeling any level of overwhelmed, this is about to chill you out in all the best ways. I really, really love this guy. And we've talked to his wife before, by the way, Jess Connolly. We talked to her about body shame a while back. We'll have a link to that episode. But, yeah, this is his other half, his better half, he might say. So let's introduce Nick and hear from him.

K.C. Wright: Nick Connolly is the founding and lead pastor of Bright City Church. Love the name of that. It's a 10-year-old faith community located in the heart of downtown Charleston, South Carolina. Not only is Nick passionate about church, he and his wife, Jess, have started multiple businesses and love how business can be used for the Kingdom of God. Nick and Jess live in Charleston with their four kids, Elias, Glori, Benja, and Cannon.

Jennifer Rothschild: Aren't those great names?

K.C. Wright: I just immediately stopped and my heart fluttered when I saw Glori.

Jennifer Rothschild: I know.

K.C. Wright: How amazing is that?

Jennifer Rothschild: I love it.

K.C. Wright: I love it. All the names are beautiful, but that one is just -- wow, you never hear of that.

Jennifer Rothschild: Hmm-mm.

K.C. Wright: This is going to be so good. There's room at the table for you. Pull up a chair. Let's go.

Jennifer Rothschild: Let's go.

Well, Nick, I have had the privilege of speaking with your wife before, and she was just a delight, so this is really fun to get to hear from her other half. And you've written a book about not giving up when we're feeling the pressure of resistance. And we have all been there. Some who are listening right now are right there. So authors only write books like this because they have personal experience. So that's where I want to start. I want to know, like, what in your life has taught you about resistance? Like, what has made you want to quit? That's the easiest way to ask it. What in your life has made you feel like, okay, that's enough, I got to quit?

Nick Connolly: I guess the other question you could ask is what makes me -- what doesn't make me want to quit. I feel like there's just so many things in life that we encounter just living in the ecosystem of this fallen world and the day-to-day responsibilities that we have. I just feel like in a lot of ways, there's resistance in every level. I can go back as early as my childhood and just remember some of the days where my -- you know, growing up with a single mom who had cancer off and on most of my childhood, and just remembering those days to be tough days.

And then you fast forward to the early parenting days and then the ministry days. And we are currently in the teenager days. And so I think when I look at the larger sample size of my life, you know, that's the question I ask, is what don't I want to give up?

Jennifer Rothschild: And have you noticed, is it -- how shall I phrase this? Is it the experience, the situation, the circumstance itself that makes you want to quit, or is it perhaps your own lack of courage, your own fatigue, something like that? Is it an internal thing that makes you want to quit or an external situation that makes you want to quit?

Nick Connolly: That's a great question. For me, it is both. I think sometimes there are circumstances that I just look at and I'm like, man, I do not see the other side of this. And I heard a pastor say one time that any time we're filled with worry or anxiety, it's imagining the future without God in the mix. And so I think sometimes the circumstance becomes larger than my outlook, and sometimes that makes me want to quit. And then oftentimes -- I think we all respond to resistance differently. And for me, my own personal flavor of response is that I get really discouraged, I get really defeated. And if I am not careful, I can slip into despair.

And so I think some people have this -- I don't know, a place in them where they're able to see resistance and they respond with this crazy fight. And it's almost like challenge accepted. And for me, that is just not the case. I respond in discouragement, I respond in defeat, I respond in negativity, I respond sometimes in depression. And so I think for me, both the external and the internal oftentimes make me want to give up.

Jennifer Rothschild: I'm glad you explain that too, Nick, because sometimes -- you know, we're wired differently. And, yeah, some people, resistance comes up and they're like, "Yeah, bring it on." And then there's others that are like, "Okay, never mind." And that doesn't mean one response is better than the other. I mean, our unique wiring is such that God's going to use however we're wired to help us meet the challenges. But here's the thing. It does always seem hard. Okay? It just seems hard when we meet resistance. So I'm curious, do you think there's a secret in fighting resistance, or does it always have to be as hard as it feels?

Nick Connolly: Well, I don't know if -- so I talk about this in the book. And I don't know if it makes fighting it any easier, but I think one of the things I have learned in my life is that when I befriend resistance, I tend to have a better outlook on the resistance. And so what I mean by that is when I read places in Scripture like John 16:33 where Jesus says in this world we will have troubles, or we will face troubles, or we will -- you know, the way that I say it, encounter resistance, I think Jesus is just letting us know that resistance sometimes can be the norm in our lives. And so rather than being offended by God -- like, "God, how could you do this?" -- I've chosen to try my best. And it takes me a while to get there. I've tried my best to say, you know what, I'm going to befriend resistance. I'm going to treat resistance as the norm rather than the exception.

And another thing that I've done that -- I don't know if this is right or not, so this is me submitting it to the podcast. In James 1:2-4, you know, he says, "Consider it pure joy when you face trials of many kinds." And one of the things that I have felt like God has shown me in my life is that any time I am encountering resistance and facing resistance, oftentimes it's actually confirmation that I'm heading in the right direction. So maybe I can give you an example. Anytime that I'm wanting to maybe be -- you know, we all are in this place where we're beginning to think about Bible reading plans for the new year. And anytime I want to say, all right, this is the year that I'm going to read the Bible in a year, you know, those are often the most exhausting times where things come up and challenge my Bible reading time.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Nick Connolly: Or if I'm saying, hey -- you know, you mentioned my better half earlier. Like, this is the year where I'm going to love my wife in this way: X, Y, and Z. And oftentimes life will bring resistance that keep me from making the commitments that I made. And so I find that oftentimes the enemy is going to do whatever he can to keep us from walking and following Jesus the way that Jesus has planned for us so that we can experience abundance. He's going to do everything he can to keep us from that, and to me that is resistance.

Jennifer Rothschild: I agree with you personally. I do think our best -- I shouldn't say best. What on the surface seems like our most peaceful days are the days when we are absolutely no threat to the enemy of our souls, because he has no reason to mess with us.

Nick Connolly: Mmm, girl.

Jennifer Rothschild: You know? But what you're describing -- yeah. I mean -- so I write books also, and I've had publishers -- because I have an awesome stud husband, and I've had publishers say, "Y'all need to write a book on marriage." I'm like, "No, thank you." No stinking way, because I am not inviting the attack.

Nick Connolly: Amen.

Jennifer Rothschild: Marriage is hard enough without the attack, right? So anyway -- no. Of course I would if the Lord led. But you get my point. I agree with you is what I'm saying. And so I think you're right, we need to look at it -- you're just presenting a different paradigm, Nick, that I think we need to consider. Because sometimes we think, well, God doesn't like me or he doesn't care, when really it might be an affirmation that you're exactly where you're supposed to be. And you've been very honest, you know, in this conversation and in your book, you're super honest about those times when you want to quit. All right?

Nick Connolly: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: And so as I'm sensing your authenticity and hearing your honesty, I am curious if you believe there might be any kind of connection between being honest about your struggle with the resistance you're experiencing and then actually growing in perseverance. Like, is there a connection? If you're honest about it, does that actually aid in your ability to be persistent in the face of the hard stuff?

Nick Connolly: I believe so. So I have the great joy and privilege of pastoring a church here in Charleston, South Carolina, called Bright City Church, and we have -- you know, as most churches do, we have a membership process that we call ownership. And in that ownership process, we go over seven different things that -- you know, call it values or whatever for our church. And one of the values that we talk about is power and vulnerability. And that just comes from Paul's writing in Corinthians where he says, like, hey, we access God's power when we come from a place of weakness. And so for me -- and my wife has been the biggest advocate in helping me see this -- is that any time we step into vulnerability, any time we access vulnerability, we're accessing God's power. And so I think any time I'm able to be vulnerable, I'm experiencing God's power, and as a result it is growing persistence in me.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. I love that because it also shows us that when we're trying to be strong and white-knuckle it and persevere on our own, we're really hurting ourselves. We really are.

Nick Connolly: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: We're not inviting God into the process where our real strength comes from.

And actually that reminds me, Nick, of something you mentioned. Okay? Because in your book, you write about outlasting the onslaught. Okay? So how is that different from white-knuckling it and just gritting your teeth and getting through it? So what's the difference there?

Nick Connolly: Yeah. That's a great question. And I think for me, one of the things that I have noticed in my relationship with God is that any time there are external things happening, God is actually doing something internally in me. And so white-knuckling to me just says, all right, let's just get through this. It doesn't matter what happens, how I respond, or the outcome that I have, let's just get through it. But when you outlast the onslaught, what I think is happening is you have this perspective that God is taking the things that are happening around me and is accomplishing something in me.

And so I talk about a lot of different ways that I've experienced resistance in my life, whether that be just relational strife or just relational hiccups or spiritual attack or just having deep moments of discouragement and despair. And I think if I was white-knuckling it, like, okay, let me just get through this because I just need to figure out what is on the other side or -- it doesn't matter, the process doesn't matter. But I think what happens when you have a spiritual outlook on it is you're saying, hey, God is doing something in me. He's using the things around me and outside of me to accomplish that, and that means something to me.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, you're saying the process does matter. I'm glad you shared that. And in doing so, as you're going through it, you kind of then do get to the point where you did kind of overcome the onslaught. You got through it through the way you are getting through it just a step at a time. That's super helpful.

So here's another thought, then, for you personally. And you shared kind of a little bit about this earlier. But for you personally, are there some habits, some very specific things or practices that you have implemented that help you keep going? So, like, for me -- this is a tiny thing, but sometimes when -- I happen to be blind, Nick, and there are times when it feels huge, and I'm like, I'm done. Other people can do this better than me, the effort is too much, you know. And so one of the things I would start to say to myself -- I mean, there's a couple of phrases, but one of them was, "You think about that tomorrow. Don't quit now. Think about that tomorrow." Because it seemed like tomorrow -- I would sleep, I would eat, I would rest, I would have spiritual renewal, and then tomorrow was a new day. So I guess what I'm saying with quitting, I think procrastination is a good strategy sometimes.

Okay. So what I'm wondering with you, are there very specific habits or practices that you've implemented when you want to quit?

Nick Connolly: Yes. And I loved everything that you just mentioned, because one of the things that I talk about is not deciding while we're defeated. One of the things I've noticed is that so many leaders and so many people get into these incredible moments in their lives based off of some sort of spiritual encounter or moment that they have with God. So for example, in my process of starting a church, like, I just didn't one day wake up and be like, "You know what I think would be a good idea? I think I'll start a church." Like, I had an encounter with God. I could mark that moment as an Ebenezer moment in my life where I remember God and I remember how he spoke to me and what he was telling me to do. This can be said for, you know, when we moved to Charleston, South Carolina, this could be said for when I entered into marriage with my wife. There's all these things in our lives that we rely on spiritual encounter and spiritual guidance to step into.

But one of the things I've noticed in my own life and in the lives of others is that we step out of things without those same experiences. And so a lot of times, I -- like you were saying, the goal is to not decide defeated. Like, who doesn't want to give up on their worst day? Like, who doesn't want to give up when they feel discouraged? Everyone. And so a great practice is whatever that is happening in someone's life, you know, when you're listening to this, is don't decide defeated. Because I've noticed that sometimes we make these life-altering decisions in times of defeat rather than seeking God and trusting him and believing that he's got a plan for our lives. And so that would be one thing.

And then I loved how you said just waiting a day, getting some rest, all those things. And when you look at Elijah's story in Scripture, I've noticed that that's something that I see in his story. You remember when he calls down fire from heaven, he has this amazing revival ministry moment. And then he freaks out and runs away and he's super defeated, he's super discouraged. He is basically -- not just wanted to give up, he is giving up. And what I love about that passage is some of the first things that God does in those moments is he gives him rest and he gives him food. It's like, man, sometimes I just need a snack. And I think there are times when things are a little bit more complicated than that. But I think if we're not taking care of the regular rhythms in our lives, then we're not going to know how to process the resistance in our lives, and so we've got to be able to do those things.

Jennifer Rothschild: Dude, that is such a good word. Because sometimes we complicate that which should be simple. So that's a very good word. I used to say that with my kids before we'd get into an eruption. I'd say, "Let's have a snack." "Let's sit down." "Do you need to go to the bathroom?" Let's take care of all the needs. Because, yeah --

Nick Connolly: Oh, I'm writing that down. I'm in teenager land. I'm writing that down.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, yeah. Do not engage in conversation with low blood sugar. It will not end well.

All right. So I had the privilege one time of interviewing Morgan Harper Nichols, and she said --

Nick Connolly: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- something fascinating. I just loved it. She talked about having a personal bibliography. Okay, these were the people who inspired her or impacted her. So I'm curious for you, Nick, do you have any authors or people who have inspired you or impacted you that are in your personal bibliography?

Nick Connolly: Oh, wow, that's a great question. So I'm going to first to say my wife. She is the inspiration, and she is incredible, and she is the better half. And then -- so these are people that -- I don't have to have met them, these are people that just inspire me?

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Nick Connolly: Okay. I am a 2, 6, 8 generation kid, so I love Louie and Shelley Giglio. I just have been so blessed by the ministry. I was at a ministry event when they used to tour college campuses, and that was when I felt like God was telling me to go back and start dating this girl named Jess. And I did, and ended up marrying her. And in that same night felt the call to ministry.

I love Erwin McManus out in Hollywood. I feel like he is living in the future, even though he's living presently in this time.

And then I love Jay and Katherine Wolf.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, yes.

Nick Connolly: -- of Hope Heals. They're just incredible people. And we have the privilege of being able to do their camp over the summer, and we just love them to death and they're some of my favorite people. So those are a few honorable mentions.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, I think that's great. And it's interesting how each of them, just knowing of those people, have probably impacted you and inspired you in different ways. And I think when we have the example of others, I think that helps too, doesn't it, Nick, when we want to quit? Because we think okay -- all you have to do is spend 10 minutes online looking at anything Katherine Wolf has recorded or written and you're like, okay, never mind. She inspires you. I'm not quitting. You know? So all of us have that ability for each other, to be that for each other, to be strong for the other and to say, well, you know what? If Nick can do it, if Katherine can do it, then I can do it, at least for the rest of the day, and then tomorrow I can re-evaluate. So thankful for all that.

All right. So, Nick, we're going to get to our last question. And this is why you wrote a book, so that we can read it because we don't have time to go through all of it. But I just know how rich it is on every page. So here's our last question, though. You got people listening, and every time you're talking about resistance, they're thinking of their own thing, this thing in their life that's just huge and heavy right now for them. And so what would you say to someone who feels that resistance right now? Like, you know, they're just in the biggest struggle of their life and they really do want to quit. Like, what can you tell them in a practical way to do, and how can you also encourage them?

Nick Connolly: Yeah. I think first off I would say is that a lot of times we -- some people trying to be helpful -- almost like Job's friends, they're going to try to minimize the thing in our life. And I think oftentimes that we're walking through some of life's hardest battles. And that's what they are. They're hard, they're discouraging. It's going to be an uphill climb. There's probably 99 easier options that look appealing and then there's the one that is the impossible. And so I think first off I would just encourage your listeners to just say, hey, probably whatever you're feeling, there's probably some truth to that feeling. Like, there's probably a heaviness that is rightly apportioned to what you're feeling.

And so one of the things that I've felt has been so great in my life is having the freedom to get honest with God. One of the things that I feel like we misplace, or I even misconstrue about God, is we have to have the flowery speech and be buttoned up. We have this flowery language. And one of the things I love about the Scriptures is you just see over and over again real people get really honest with God. And what I know about God is God is the only one who can take our full and authentic self. And so I would just encourage, if you're in there, to just get real, get honest with God, say exactly what you're feeling, even if there's some choice words in there, because he's the only one that can take it. He's still going to love us, he's still pushed near towards us, and he's still going to want to compassionately care for our hearts and souls.

And then the second thing I would say is, you know, you're not going to give up defeated, you're not going to decide defeated. And so if you need to pause, you need to take a break, you need to take a step back, just do whatever you can to not make a decision in a deficit.

And then lastly is I would just keep your eyes on the harvest. Galatians 6:9 is one of my favorite verses, and it says that we will reap a harvest if we do not give up And so our faithfulness will be matched with God's fruitfulness. And so whatever you're facing, whatever you're going through, there is a harvest on the other side. And the enemy wants to do everything he can to keep us from that harvest, because he knows if we experience the harvest, then we're going to see God's faithfulness. And if we see God's faithfulness, it's only going to increase our faith in God and we're only going to be spurred on to run harder after God, and I think he wants to do everything he can to keep us from that.

K.C. Wright: Keep your eyes on the harvest because -- here's the promise -- we will reap if we don't quit. Our faithfulness will be matched with God's fruitfulness.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. That's a good word.

K.C. Wright: So good.

Jennifer Rothschild: I love that statement. And didn't you guys just feel like you were just sitting around with him having coffee? And then all of a sudden, boom, he drops these truth bombs. So I hope you heard him. He said if it feels hard, it's because it is hard. Your feelings are legit, and you can be honest with God about those feelings. You're not in it alone. So be honest with your people and be honest with God.

K.C. Wright: So get his book. You may know someone who is in ministry, and I really think they need it, because resistance is a real thing --

Jennifer Rothschild: It is, yeah.

K.C. Wright: -- and wanting to quit is a real feeling. Ask me how I know.

We will link you to his book on the Show Notes at 413podcast.com/297. And you can also read a transcript of this great conversation there too.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. And we're also going to link you to the episode I mentioned earlier that Jess was on, so that you can hear that also if you missed it the first time.

All right, our people, until next week, don't quit. You can persevere because you can do all things through Christ who gives you strength. I can.

K.C. Wright: I can.

Jennifer and K.C.: And you can.

K.C. Wright: Now, back to this candle line.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

K.C. Wright: I really feel as if we could make some money with these.

Jennifer Rothschild: Mm-hmm.

K.C. Wright: Are you sure you don't want to do this? A Jennifer Rothschild candle, light the darkness, light the world?

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, dude, that's a good idea.

K.C. Wright: I mean, we could run -- I mean, I have, like, a million ideas.

Jennifer Rothschild: I got to train you, though, up in my candle-making ways. Okay? That or we need to hire a bunch of teenagers to do it, because I don't have time for that. I just want to create that concept and make the nice happy smells.

K.C. Wright: Well, if not candles, then you can have your own line of perfume. We could sell them at Fresh Grounded Faith. I mean, we already sell coffee.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right?

K.C. Wright: Why not candles and perfume? I'm telling you.

Jennifer Rothschild: I love it.