4:13 Podcast: What You Need To Know About Heaven [Episode 333]

Alex Kendrick: Stephen and I quote you.

Stephen Kendrick: Yes, we do --

Alex Kendrick: Yeah, we --

Stephen Kendrick: -- quote Jennifer.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, my gosh.

Stephen Kendrick: We got to spend time with you, and we did that Fathom event a few years ago.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

Alex Kendrick: And Stephen and I have often quoted, "Jennifer Rothschild said" -- when you were talking about what you're going through in this life and what's to come, that Jennifer said, "Earth is short and heaven is long."

Stephen Kendrick: Yes.

Alex Kendrick: And so keep your eyes on what's coming. Don't put all your focus on this earthly life. Jesus said, you know, set your treasures in heaven, and that is the wiser thing to focus on. And we have -- Stephen and I have even both said the first thing Jennifer will see is what you would want to see the most.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes. Right?

Stephen Kendrick: The face of Jesus.

Alex Kendrick: Oh, yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: The face of -- nothing else.

Alex Kendrick: And so --

Jennifer Rothschild: Nothing else can compare.

Alex Kendrick: Yeah, so we have quoted you a number of times.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, okay. I just got to say --

Stephen Kendrick: We're fans. We're fans.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, right back at you. Here's what I love about that too, you guys. I am just publishing a Bible study on heaven that comes out in January of '25 because of that reality: Earth is short, heaven is long. So we want to know about our forever home.

KC Wright: Welcome to the 4:13 Podcast. This whole month we're using the song you hear in background called "Ascending" by Michael O'Brien. Do you know why? Because this song is a part of our girl Jennifer's latest video-based Bible study called "Heaven: When Faith Becomes Sight." And we're celebrating around here for the whole month.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yep.

KC Wright: So welcome to the 4:13 Podcast, where practical encouragement and biblical wisdom set you up to live the "I Can" life, because you can do all things through Christ who gives you strength.

Now, here's your host, Jennifer Rothschild.

Jennifer Rothschild: Welcome back, our 4:13 family. And if you're new to us, we're so glad you're here. That was KC Wright, my Seeing Eye Guy. And it's just two friends here in the podcast closet, with one topic and zero stress. And, yeah, we're going to talk about heaven. But it's interesting. It's not just going to be me and KC talking about heaven. You're going to get to hear from some other voices. Well, you already did. Because when we started, you heard the voices of Alex and Stephen Kendrick, you know, the Kendrick Brothers. They were in the opening. And you probably guessed, this is going to be different, very interesting, and super fun episode because we really are about to hear from lots of 4:13 friends about heaven.

So here's why. I have been collecting -- anytime somebody said something about heaven, I've been collecting the audio clips. But here's the best part, at least to me. You are going to even get to hear the voice of my dad, even though he is actually already in heaven. So I have his voice recorded, and I can't wait for you to hear it.

So while I was writing the Heaven Bible study, KC, my mom would text me on most days and she would ask, "Are you going to be in heaven today?" Well, of course, she meant in the Heaven manuscript. But I tell you that because, of course, even though I wasn't in heaven literally, heaven was in me. The hope of it, the wonder of it, the anticipation of it. And so after steeping myself in what Scripture says about heaven, I feel so much more grounded and anchored in the reality of eternity, and I'm just growing in anticipation of my faith actually becoming sight someday. I will be living fully in my glorious unending. Oh, man.

Now, I'm not really ready to leave immediately, but I will tell you this, I am looking forward to that day. And you know what? That is what a biblical understanding of heaven really has done for me. And it can do that for you too. Ground you in eternity, strengthen you in the face of uncertainty, and it can anchor you in deep spiritual serenity. And I think you're going to hear that. So every time you hear something from one of these guests, you're going to hear that kind of serenity, that kind of hope. So these different voices that you're about to hear, they speak very candidly about heaven, and what they say is going to encourage you deeply.

So, my people, since heaven is real, like, what you believe about that day can really impact this day. And it did for the first voice you're about to hear, Karen Kingsbury. You know who she is. She's an amazing author, best-selling author, and now become a filmmaker. So she was talking about sinking her family's life savings into making this movie. And here's how her view of heaven impacted that risky choice.

Karen Kingsbury: It was trusting the Lord and being able to say, okay, even if it all falls apart, then this day, did I live this day well? Did I make the most of sharing his light and love, his joy and peace with the people around me? Did I live my life for Jesus to lead others toward him today? If this is the last day I get, and when the movie never happens, if the theaters never open, is it enough that we did this and we did this path and we made an impact on the people around us? And the answer was always yes.

And it comes back to -- and even on days when you might feel afraid or when I might feel anxious about something, I really quickly turn to Jesus and I hear him saying, "It's just earth." This is just earth. We have so much ahead. And so what impact we can make here, we will do by the grace and strength of God alone. And the rest, hey, we have eternity, so we don't have to worry about it.

KC Wright: It's just earth. Such a short, profound sentence.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

KC Wright: Don't you love that?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, I really did. It's just earth.

You know, I find myself often, KC, saying earth is short and heaven is long. Y'all, we need that kind of perspective. It's an eternal perspective.

KC Wright: Hey, you got to have a conversation with Lisa-Jo Baker at one of the live events and found out that you guys share the same favorite verses.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yep.

KC Wright: And this clip will let you know what that is. And here's a hint. It all points to an eternal perspective.

Jennifer Rothschild: We share the same favorite verses.

Lisa-Jo Baker: Oh, we do.

Jennifer Rothschild: 2 Corinthians 4 --

Lisa-Jo Baker: Sixteen, yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- through 18.

Lisa-Jo Baker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: Tell me why that's your -- well, first of all, can you quote it?

Lisa-Jo Baker: Yeah, yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. Quote it for us, because your accent will make prettier than mine, and then tell us why it's your favorite.

Lisa-Jo Baker: Sure. Though outwardly we are wasting away, yet inwardly we are being renewed. For these light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal weight of glory that far outweighs them all.

It will seem a sad reason, but it isn't. This was my mom's verse that she loved when she was dying essentially of leukemia. And we used to joke with her because her hair was falling out from all the chemotherapy and she would wear wigs. And then we were teenagers, we were super obnoxious, and when she'd get stressed about something, we'd be like, "Mom, keep your hair on, okay?" But she laughed because she said this verse, you know, though outwardly we are wasting away -- and she literally was. We watched her waste away before our eyes -- yet inwardly we are being renewed day by day, and that is what I saw in my tiny, frail mom.

I'll never forget her sitting in her hospice bed. But when she talked to God, I had never experienced that before. She was in this little blue nightgown, and she had a pink scarf around her head, and she was wasted away to almost nothing, but she was talking to God. And when she spoke to him, she kind of hit her fist into the side of the bed like, "Lord," and she talked to him with authority. And I was an 18-year-old teenager, who didn't know much about life yet, and I felt the shivers go up my spine because I knew she was talking to somebody real, that there was actually a presence in the room responding to my tiny mother. And we watched her grow into this shining human, and her tiny body just couldn't contain that anymore.

And when she talked to God, I realized for the first time God listens. And when I stood in that hospital room -- it was the night before she died when I watched her pray like that -- I felt like I was eavesdropping on a conversation between close friends. And I knew in that moment that everything I'd read or heard in Sunday school or been forced to sit through in church, suddenly it occurred to me that was real. There was a real place and a real God who was really involved in our lives. And I learned that firsthand through watching my mother.

So that verse is actually on her tombstone. And I'll just say, it's come full circle for me. Because as a woman now in her 40s, who has three kids -- say it with me ladies -- do we get to this point in our lives where suddenly in our culture there's this stress factor about age and weight?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes --

Lisa-Jo Baker: Right?

Jennifer Rothschild: -- yes, yes.

Lisa-Jo Baker: And it's sort of exhausting. And I just felt like it had got to a point where I didn't want the scale to be the boss of me anymore. It was frustrating that there was that voice in my mind about weight. And I went back to that verse that talks about a weight of glory, and I thought to myself, you know, we have an enemy who wants to trick us into thinking you could possibly be weighed by a scale. When you are carrying in you an eternal weight of glory, it cannot possibly be measured by a scale.

And so for me, that verse from when I was 18 to now -- I'm 44, about to turn 45 -- continues to speak into my life, Jennifer, about -- when I think now about that line an eternal weight of glory, I think, yep, that's what I'm carrying inside these jeans. Don't care what the size says on the label.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's right.

Lisa-Jo Baker: Thank you very much.

Jennifer Rothschild: Do not lose weight. Do not.

Oh, my friend, death is not the period at the end of our stories; death is just the comma that transitions us from the prologue to the forever stories of our lives. It's like death just allows you to step fully into your glorious unending, finally trading faith for sight. That's kind of -- when I heard Lisa-Jo, I just -- that perspective is just -- man, brought me such hope. Anyway...

Now this next woman, she is one of my heroes. She has been paralyzed and in a wheelchair since she was 17 years old because of a diving accident. So I want you to listen to her eternal perspective and again just how that weight of glory gives her hope for today.

KC Wright: She's one of my heroes too. This is Joni Eareckson-Tada.

Jennifer Rothschild: "On This Side of Eternity," you're talking about practicing the presence of the Lord. But one day, sister, you will be in the presence of Jesus in heaven, right in front of him. So what does that mean to you? And how can the reality of that day -- how is that going to impact this day on earth for you?

Joni Eareckson-Tada: Oh, my goodness, you've just painted a most marvelous picture. Because I imagine at that point I'll be standing up --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

Joni Eareckson-Tada: -- and I can hold the hands of my Savior and I will feel the nail prints in his hand. And I will say to him -- looking in his eyes, I'll say, "Jesus, thank you. Thank you for giving me grace, grace all those years I was paralyzed. Thank you so much." And you know what? When I say that, I know Jesus will know that I mean it, because he will know that I'm the one who for 56 years came to him every day, hammering human strength, "I can't do this," and he will know that my gratitude is sincere and from the heart. And nothing could please me more than that.

And as I said earlier, I want to do everything down here on earth that I can to enlarge my eternal estate, to stretch it. And we know that if we have the perspective that our light and momentary afflictions are just that, light and momentary, and have a godly response to it, then they are accruing for us an eternal weight of glory that is far more significant than the inconvenience of blindness, of paralysis, whatever else our listeners might be struggling with. I mean, it just far outweighs it.

So I don't want to diminish it; I want to enlarge it. I want to work for that day. I cannot wait to see the Lord Jesus and tell him thank you from the heart. I won't be mouthing my thankfulness; it'll be a river of living gratitude poured out upon him for glory upon glory forevermore.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, may we all have that same heart of thankfulness.

Now, I want you to hear from my ultimate hero, my dad. Now, I just can't wait for you to meet this guy. He really is my forever hero. I always call him my Hero Dad. So Lawson Jolly, my dad, he went to heaven in 2018, yet I am so privileged, I have his voice on tape. He was reading Scripture from a sermon -- my dad was a pastor -- and he gave this sermon just a few months before he died. He's reading out of Hebrews 11 about heaven.

Pastor Lawson Jolly: Verse 13 says, "All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promise; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance." They were expecting something beyond death. They didn't get it while they were alive, but they knew it was coming and it was going to be theirs. And they admitted that they were aliens and strangers on earth. They were just here for a period of time passing through."

Verse 14, "People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own." Just aliens in this world. "If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. Instead, they were longing for a better country -- a heavenly one. Therefore, God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them." God has prepared a city for these heroes and for those that die in the faith. Jesus spoke of it, you know, in John 14. He said, "Don't let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; you believe also in me. In my Father's house there many, many mansions. Now, I'm going to go and prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I'm going to come again, and I'm going to receive you unto myself so that where I am, you can be also."

Jennifer Rothschild: Amen, Dad. Amen. I am longing for that city, and I'm just so thankful that heaven is real.

KC Wright: Me too. That was so special.

Jennifer Rothschild: Wasn't it special?

KC Wright: So special.

Okay, now to a journalist who sought evidence for heaven. You're about to hear from Lee Strobel. And he helps us understand what heaven feels like by reminding us of what Jesus calls heaven.

Lee Strobel: But Jesus uses metaphors. And I'll end with one of my favorites when he's talking to his disciples. And he uses a metaphor of home, that heaven is like home. And I don't know if you've ever traveled internationally, maybe to a third-world country where conditions are difficult. But I've been to India. I've lived on, you know, a sleeping bag on the ground and eaten foods that were strange to me. And you do that for a period of time and you begin to develop a homesickness. You begin to long for home. And when you finally return home from this trip and you walk into the door of your home, it is such a place of wonder and warmth and security and grace that you're just overwhelmed by. And you crawl into your own bed and it feels so good.

And Jesus is saying to his disciples and to us, that's the metaphor I want you to hang on to. Heaven is like a home. It's like a real home. This is not -- in our world, this is not our home. We're just passing through this world. Heaven is like home on steroids. And so we will experience those qualities of grace and joy and wonder and appreciation, and I believe adventure and creativity, as we spend eternity in the presence of God.

Jennifer Rothschild: Heaven is our home. I mean, what Lee said reminds me of the Spurgeon quote that I won't quote perfectly. So, KC, read it for us.

KC Wright: "We are not far from home. Heaven is just one sigh and we get there. Our departed friends are only in the upper room, as it were, of the same house. They have not gone far off. They are upstairs, and we are down below." Isn't that beautiful?

Jennifer Rothschild: I love it.

KC Wright: Whoo! Chill bumps.

All right. Now from a journalist to a pastor. Pastors Lisa and Ed Young of Fellowship Church lost their daughter, LeeBeth, when she was just a young woman. Such a searing pain for parents.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

KC Wright: So Jennifer asked them if their perspective on heaven has changed, and here is what Lisa said.

Lisa Young: It's real, it's -- I had heard about books and things about heaven, and I can't really say that I read too many. I think more than anything -- which I will definitely read yours. But I look to Scripture to kind of see the truth text behind what we should imagine. You hear words like -- and I don't know. None of us really know. But I hear words about, oh, if, you know -- I'll tell you an example. My father passed away in 1997. And he was such a handyman, and he could just fix anything, build anything. And so whenever I'm fixing something, I'm like, oh, Daddy's looking down from heaven and he's so happy because I just fixed something.

And in reality, I now think that the glory of God is so magnificent, it would be a shame for them to be looking down on me because of so much that they have to see in heaven. And I don't know that that's accurate, but it's given me great comfort in my worship time, publicly at Fellowship Church or privately, to think about LeeBeth being before the throne and all of our loved ones being before the throne of God and in the most ultimate perfect worship ever. And ironically, as I worship, I am basking in the glory of God, but there is a hint of her presence right beside me because we're doing the same thing.

Jennifer Rothschild: Because you're fellowshipping before the throne.

Lisa Young: Right, right, right.

Pastor Ed Young: That's right.

Lisa Young: So I don't know that it gives us a clearer picture of what heaven is, but it does give us a greater desire to let people know that this is where they need to go.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, KC, I think we just need to hear the Word, so will you read out of Revelation 7 for us.

KC Wright: Revelation 7:9-10. "After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people, and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. And they cried out in a loud voice: 'Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.'"

Jennifer Rothschild: You know, I'm so glad you read that, because that is the reality that is happening right now. You know, I have a friend named Tammy Trent, and she lost her husband when they had only been married just about ten years. And she has said so many times Trent is not just part of her past; he's part of her future. Same applies to LeeBeth.

Anyway, let's move on, because there's going to be another voice here that you will recognize, Kathie Lee Gifford. And I want you to listen when I asked her what she would do -- when she gets to heaven, what's the first thing that she's going to do.

Someday your body is going to pass from death to life.

Kathie Lee Gifford: That's the good news.

Jennifer Rothschild: Isn't it?

Kathie Lee Gifford: Especially the older you get.

Jennifer Rothschild: You'll be free someday in heaven.

Kathie Lee Gifford: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: Frank's there, special people to you are there, Jesus is there. So -- you can answer this question however you want. You can be as spiritual as you want, you can -- whatever you want. But I want to know, what's the best thing that you're looking forward to doing or seeing or saying when you get to heaven?

Kathie Lee Gifford: Well, I always say people say all through their lives, When I get to heaven, I'm going to ask him about this, right?

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Kathie Lee Gifford: I'm not going to ask him about anything.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Kathie Lee Gifford: All will be revealed. There will be no questions. We will be in his presence, and that will be enough. Enough. And we won't even think about asking him a question. We will throw ourselves at his feet, which are also nail scarred. We always talk about his hands. But his feet were too. And we will throw ourselves at those feet and thank him and glorify him. And we'll say, "Okay, Jesus, what's next? We're here. Let's do it." Because our work will not be over, it will just be beginning.

Jennifer Rothschild: I don't think I've heard a sweeter answer. Thank you for that, Kathie Lee.

Kathie Lee Gifford: Thank you, Lord. Thank you, Yeshua.

KC Wright: Love that.

Here's one more new voice and then one last voice. This is Amy Baik Lee.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. I got to talk to her about tuning in to eternity even now. Because when you think about it, we live right now between Jesus' two comings, in the already and in the not yet. And we want to experience the full reality of heaven now, because the hope of heaven, the reality of heaven really can heal the wounds of earth. So listen to Amy's words. They're just filled with wonder.

Amy Baik Lee: I think I always had a nebulous view of heaven as a place where all things would be set right and that we would no longer have death and pain and crying, like Revelation says, but I don't know that I ever knew how to imagine anything beyond that. And I certainly hadn't looked any more closely at the different passages in Scripture that talk about it too, but there's very concrete language that is given to describe the restoration that is coming.

So we have the heaven -- I guess theologians kind of -- some of them call it the intermediary heaven where -- that's immediately where we go after death. But at the end of the world, and at the end of time as we know it right now, there will be a great remaking of this current earth, and we'll have the New Heaven and the New Earth and that will be a wholeness. It will be a restoration not just of things as right before they were unbroken, but something even more whole than that. A place where we will bring our creation mandate to bear, a place where we will be fruitful and multiply and spread all over the earth with, you know, work that is not cursed and with worship that pervades everything. And so everything that we're learning to do here as a mode of worship to God -- which is not just gathering in churches on Sundays, but it's all of the creative endeavors, it's all of the things that we do for one another -- those are the things that we will get to flourish in.

So I've just loved that, that we get to think about that and we get to look forward to a life that is full and busy, but not in our sense of busy as we think of it now. Living into the reality that Jesus has told us that the Kingdom of God is coming, but it's also here among us right now, and it's in the midst of us and it's breaking through. I think that there is all the worth of our lives summed up in that statement, that it's worth paying attention to the Kingdom in our midst and to the Kingdom that is breaking through. Because, yes, we're waiting for wholeness and healing and restoration, but here is where we get to walk with him. And here, I believe, is where we get to see God in a capacity that we will not get to see him in in the new creation and in restoration, because it's here that we see him right alongside the brokenness. And it's here that we get to wait for him and watch for him and see the overtures to his love to us breaking through no matter what the afflictions of the present moment are. And as that relationship with him grows and as that adventure grows -- and it breaks us at times, I know. But as we build that history with him -- when I think of what it might be like when we arrive to our long-awaited home and we look back, I think it will be those stories that we remember that make us cry, that help us when we come face to face with him to remember all that he has been to us and all that we know him to be, and that is going to add an immeasurably sweet note of worship to him for eternity because we have seen him here and we have walked with him here.

And so if anything, I would say as we're living on this earth, it's worth it to embrace everything that is given to us to the full extent that we can, to lean into our lament and our grief and our sorrow, but also our celebration and our joy, and to embrace that, because it's here that we'll get to see him and here that he keeps surprising us. So I hope that as that happens, that we fall more and more deeply in love with him as we understand the depth of his character and we see the constancy of his tenderness towards us.

Jennifer Rothschild: You know, KC, thinking about heaven, it really does just help us fall more in love with the Treasure of Heaven, Jesus. So let's walk with him now until the day he walks us home. And let's look forward. Because according to my dad, who you're about to hear again, it's going to be a glorious reunion.

Pastor Lawson Jolly: It's going to be a great reunion time. Reunion with those that you've loved on this earth, but they've gone on before. But it's going to be a reunion time with people we never saw on this earth. And maybe even we saw them, we never met them. And maybe even when we tried to meet them, we couldn't speak the same language or they were not the same color. But, oh, how we're going to rejoice for that reunion time, to know them then, to love them as a sister and brother in Christ.

Jennifer Rothschild: Thanks, Dad. Heaven is going to be a forever reunion, and I cannot wait.

And can I just say a big thank you to all of our friends who gave us such beautiful words about heaven today. I loved each one. So you might need to listen to this again. You need to hear what your brothers and sisters say about our eventual home. And I bet you need to share this with somebody, because you've thought of somebody as you've been listening who you know needs this kind of encouragement. So share it with somebody.

KC Wright: And I just need to give a shameless plug right here. Okay? Jennifer's new Heaven Bible study is out. And if you were ministered to by just these glimpses of heaven, buckle up, because her "Heaven: When Faith Becomes Sight" Bible study is video enhanced. So that means you get seven free teaching videos with it to watch on your own or to do with a group. You can read a free sample chapter and even watch the first video teaching at 413podcast.com/Heaven.

Plus, there are some really good extra resources right there to help you long for heaven. You know, Max Lucado said, "We say they departed, but they have arrived."

Jennifer Rothschild: Isn't that the truth? They have arrived. They have.

KC Wright: They have arrived.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, listen, my people, if you want to go, you need to know. Okay? So if you want to go to heaven, you need to know all about it. So I will say one last line and then my Daddy will talk to you as we leave. So here's my last line. Save your fork. The best is yet to come.

Take it away, Dad.

Pastor Lawson Jolly: You probably have heard that story about the fork. A lady was terminally ill and had her pastor to come visit her. And talked about the songs she wanted and just how she wanted her funeral service to go. And she said, "Now, there's going to be something unusual as I -- there I'm going to have a fork in my hand." And he looked a little strange, and she said, "Let me explain it to you. Because everybody that's going to come by is going to ask, 'Why is she holding that fork?' And then I want you to tell them during your message."

She went on to say, "When I was a little girl and eating at my grandmother's, and they'd start cleaning the table and taking the plates away, my grandmother used to say, 'Keep your fork, the best is coming,' meaning the dessert." She said, "And, Pastor, I want you to explain to them that's what that fork means. It's been a good life, but the best is yet to be."

Unidentified Man: Amen.