Can I Memorize Scripture Even if I Think I’m Not Good at It? With Josh Summers [Episode 335]

Memorize Scripture Josh Summers

Even YOU can memorize the Bible! Yes, you!

According to today’s guest, it doesn’t matter how young or old you are. It doesn’t matter if you think you have a bad memory. It doesn’t even matter if you’re a busy parent who rarely has more than 10 minutes alone in any given day. Scripture memorization is possible for you!

Author and podcaster Josh Summers will share the brain science and strategies behind Scripture memorization to give you confidence and motivation to get started. The tips and strategies he offers aren’t just theoretical—he has used these methods to memorize over 10 books of the Bible word-for-word.

Yep! You read that right. But don’t be intimidated! You really need to hear this.

Plus, near the end of our conversation, Josh has a surprise for every 4:13er, and it involves getting something for FREE.

So, let’s get going! Let’s improve our memory and memorize what matters.

Meet Josh

Josh Summers is an entrepreneur, author, and podcaster, and he has also been a travel writer, photographer, and filmmaker. His blogs and videos about far West China reach millions of travelers each year. In addition to that, Josh runs his own digital media company that builds other digital brands. But his heart is in Bible memory.

Josh founded Bible Memory Goal which provides some of the best resources available for memorizing Scripture. He lives in Thailand with his amazing wife and their two boys.

[Listen to the podcast using the player above, or read the transcript below. Then check out the links below for more helpful resources.]


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Episode Transcript

4:13 Podcast: Can I Memorize Scripture Even if I Think I’m Not Good at It? With Josh Summers [Episode 335]

Josh Summers: There was a later time during our time in China where we were -- my wife and I were both interrogated for 17 days. And I remember going through that period of time and thinking to myself, Lord, if I really believe that this is the Word of God, that this is your words to me, and that it is entirely possible that someone can take away a lot of my freedoms, they can take away my ability to be a dad or a husband if they were to incarcerate me away from my family, but what they couldn't take from me is what I had hidden in my heart. Like it talks about, you know, in multiple places from Psalm 1 to Joshua 1 to many places in the Bible, to be able to meditate on those words day and night. And I wanted that to become something that was more important than it had been in the past.

Jennifer Rothschild: Even you can memorize the Bible. Yes, you. According to today's guest, it doesn't matter how young or old you are. It doesn't matter if you think you've got a bad memory, or it doesn't even matter if you're a busy parent who basically doesn't even have five minutes alone, right? Author and podcaster Josh Summers is going to share the brain science and strategies that are going to give you confidence and motivation to get started. Josh Summers has used the practical methods that he's going to share with you today to memorize -- wait for it -- over ten books of the Bible word for word. Yes -- you do not need to rewind -- you heard that correctly, ten books of the Bible. But do not be intimidated. You really need to hear this.

Plus -- you're going to love this -- near the end of our conversation, Josh has a surprise that is exclusive for the 4:13 audience, and it involves getting something very valuable for free. It's so generous, I don't want you to miss it. So let's improve our memories and memorize what matters.

KC Wright: Welcome to the 4:13 Podcast, where practical encouragement and biblical wisdom set you up to live the "I Can" life, because you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.

Now, welcome your host, Jennifer Rothschild.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, hello, our friends. Man, we're so glad you're back with us. And if you were with us last week, you know that was KC, my Seeing Eye Guy. And I'm Jennifer. Our goal is to help you be and do more than you feel capable of as you're living this "I Can" life. And if you were with us last week, you got to hear Vera Schmitz' method for memorizing Scripture. It was so helpful. Can you tell the Lord is kind of planting a little theme in your heart? And it's because he wants you to know that you can do this.

And so today we're going to be talking with Josh Summers. I told you last week, I was on Josh's podcast last year, and I learned so much from him because -- man, it was just -- the guy, he's so accessible. So I can't wait for you to hear this conversation. And you're going to be fascinated to hear what he's done and how he's done it and where it began, in a jail in China.

KC Wright: Whoa.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, this is a really special conversation. I'm thankful for getting to know my brother in Christ.

But before we get to Josh, I got to tell you, KC and I are sitting here with -- we got a tray in front of us with two mugs, Starbucks mugs. What does yours say, KC?

KC Wright: Okay, mine's -- oh.

Jennifer Rothschild: Where's yours from?

KC Wright: Bless the Lord.

Jennifer Rothschild: Where?

KC Wright: I'm drinking out of the Oxford, England mug.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, that's my special Starbucks mug.

KC Wright: I'm like, Lord, please let me --

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. What is this one?

KC Wright: -- not break this.

Jennifer Rothschild: I know, right?

KC Wright: Yours says, "The Dairy State."

Jennifer Rothschild: Wisconsin.

KC Wright: Yeah, you're drinking out of Wisconsin.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. I'm drinking out of Wisconsin, he's drinking out of Oxford. He's a lot classier.

But let me tell you what we just had that's given us all of our brainpower for today.

KC Wright: True.

Jennifer Rothschild: Peanut butter balls. They're protein balls.

KC Wright: Yeah. I'm a big fan of J.R. and all the things. And, you know, every time there's something new on social media, I'm liking and loving and sharing, right? And we appreciate you doing the same. Well, one day I was actually in my kitchen, and Kenzie --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

KC Wright: -- she posted you two little cuties in the kitchen making these protein balls.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, yeah.

KC Wright: And so I screenshot the recipe. And I just happened to be in my kitchen, and I had some time and I made them. And I made a batch for my mama. She became obsessed. And I made some for some people at my church. They became obsessed.

Jennifer Rothschild: I love obsessions.

KC Wright: So this all landed me in driving to Branson, up the road, where I bought all the ingredients from an Amish store, came home, and I made them next level. Next level peanut butter balls. And we love them. They're delicious.

Jennifer Rothschild: Aren't they good?

KC Wright: We just keep them in the fridge now.

Jennifer Rothschild: And they're good for you. Okay, let me just tell you, we will put a link to the recipe, my friends, on the Show Notes. And I'll even see if we can link to the video where Kenzie and I were making them, because it's just so cool. But here's what's in them: flax seed, chia seed, oatmeal, coconut, peanut butter, maple syrup, and I use sugar-free Lily's dark chocolate chips.

KC Wright: I'm so surprised that you just rattled that off the top of your head.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, it's because I've made them -- you know.

KC Wright: I got to look at the screenshot.

Jennifer Rothschild: But they are so good, y'all. They are so good.

KC Wright: They are.

Jennifer Rothschild: So listen. You want to memorize Scripture? Treat your brain to some good protein and some good energy. Okay? And seriously, you're going to love this recipe. It's really fun. So we'll have it on the Show Notes.

All right. I -- I've already said it. I'll say it one last time. I'm very grateful that you get to hear from Josh Summers today. And you're just going to love him. I think this is going to be one of the best conversations you've ever heard.

KC Wright: Yeah, this is one of the most interesting guests we have ever had. Just listen to this bio. Josh Summers is an entrepreneur, author, and podcaster. He has been a traveler, writer, photographer, and filmmaker. His blogs and videos are about Far West China, reaching millions of travelers each year. In addition to that, Josh also runs his very own digital media company that builds other digital brands. He's smart, though.

Jennifer Rothschild: He's smart. And, like, when does he have time to memorize? Right?

KC Wright: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: This is why he's a good example that we can all do it.

Okay, keep going.

KC Wright: So he's got all these skills, right? But here's the deal. His heart is in Bible memory. He founded Bible Memory Goal, which provides some of the best resources out there for memorizing Scripture. He lives in Thailand with his amazing wife and their two boys. So lean in as Josh and Jennifer talk about his book, "Memorize What Matters." You are going to love this, I promise you. Here we go.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right, Josh, we're listening to this right now at all different time zones and all over the world. But you and I, as we're talking, it's my morning. I've got a cup of coffee. And I'm not anticipating that you have a cup of coffee, because it is not morning for you. So tell us where you are and what time it is while we're having this convo.

Josh Summers: It would be very dangerous if I had a cup of coffee with me right now, because it is 9:30 in the evening out here in Thailand, which is where my family has been living for the past five years, and, yeah, I wouldn't be able to fall asleep if I was drinking coffee at this time of night.

Jennifer Rothschild: No, you wouldn't. So Thailand, I love that. And we're going to talk a little bit about why Thailand. But let's start with why you started memorizing. Okay? You grew up in Dallas, I think, right?

Josh Summers: Mm-hmm. Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: And at one point, you were in China. Okay.

Josh Summers: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: And so something happened in China that helped you begin this memorizing journey. So unpack your story from there, please.

Josh Summers: Absolutely. Well, I grew up in a really great strong Christian home with some parents that were amazing and a church that also encouraged memorization. So if there's anybody listening that's kind of been through that, then you know, like, when you go through Sunday school or AWANA or whatever, you've memorized a little bit of Scripture and at some point it's kind of seeped in there somewhere. But as we get adults, we tend to just kind of let that go to the side.

My family and I had been living in China. We were serving and doing ministry, but also I was doing business while we were out there for ten years. And it's a very politically sensitive part of China, so -- kind of that Western north of Tibet area. And one of the things that ended up happening to us -- it was at the very, very end of our time. I was actually on the streets of the city -- we were in the capital city of that particular region -- and suddenly -- you know, there was a lot of police presence always in that area, but I was just taken off the street really unexpectedly. They put me in a car, they drove me off to a police station. And this had never happened before, so it was very shocking to me despite the fact that we'd been there for nine years at that point.

And I remember coming into this police station and the police officer barking all these orders at me in Chinese to take out -- you know, remove my backpack, take out my phone, take off everything except just the clothes that I had. And then they brought me downstairs into the basement of that police station where there were holding cells, and then they put me in an interrogation room. And this was one of what ended up being multiple instances like this, but this was the first one, so for me the scariest.

Jennifer Rothschild: Gosh, yeah.

Josh Summers: And when I was sitting in there, you know, time just kind of seems to just drag on forever. So they probably kept me in there for at least an hour or two without coming in. And the guy that had been -- that I'd passed in the jail cell outside the door where I was at, it looked like he'd been there for days. And it was just extremely scary for me, especially the fact that I've got two young boys and my wife, and they didn't even know that I'd been taken. I have no phone to call them, so they're going to wonder where I'm at.

And I remember, you know, just my mind beginning to race and the fear really beginning to set in and starting to think, okay, okay, I've got to really take stock of what I have and what I can use in these moments, and that's when I started pulling out the Scripture that I had memorized. And the Scripture that I had memorized ended up being extremely encouraging to me, right? Like, in those moments, just settling my very anxious mind and soul at that time. But at the same time, it was also very sobering for me to realize that I actually could maybe come up with 20 verses off the top of my head. Like, maybe if you had thrown some verses at me, I might have been like, oh, yeah, I remember that one. But that I could actually come up with was maybe about 20 verses.

And there was a later time during our time in China where we were -- my wife and I were both interrogated for 17 days. And I remember going through that period of time and thinking to myself, Lord, if I really believe that this is the Word of God, that this is your words to me, and that it is entirely possible that someone can take away a lot of my freedoms, they can take away my ability to be a dad or a husband if they were to incarcerate me away from my family, but what they couldn't take from me is what I had hidden in my heart. Like, it talks about in multiple places, from Psalm 1 to Joshua 1, to many places in the Bible, to be able to meditate on those words day and night. And I wanted that to become something that was more important than it had been in the past, and that was really what jumpstarted me wanting to really memorize more of the Bible than I had before.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. So just listening to it -- and, of course, as you tell your story, you're articulate and it's tidy. But there was nothing, nothing about that at the time that felt tidy for you, I'm sure. So for it to be such a traumatic and fearful event over and over -- even though the first one you said was the most terrifying, I can't imagine any of them being less terrifying. But the fact that God used that to kind of simplify -- in some way it's a microcosm of our whole lives. What do we have -- outside of Christ and His Word, what do we really have that is permanent and that is a rock for us? Really nothing. And so what a severe mercy you were shown --

Josh Summers: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- you know, to expose that.

Josh Summers: Well, and it's also a great reminder, even nowadays for me, thinking through this idea of -- you know, we tend to worry or fear about the government or, you know, whatever the next political party or -- a lot of these things that come and go. And it was a reminder for me, like, what are the things that can be taken away from me and what are the things that can't? And the things that can't ever be taken from me, I think those are the ones that I really want to invest in the most. Not to say that I obviously want to invest in a lot of these things -- areas of my life, but investing in internalizing God's Word, there's really no downside to that.

Jennifer Rothschild: No, there's not. It's just -- the Word is alive. And so when we memorize it and plant that life within our life, it gives us life. I mean, self never satisfies self. So the more we invest in the Word, you're right.

And so here you are -- fast-forwarding, you've written a book on memorizing. You've got an incredible podcast, which is such a resource, which I've talked about before on my podcast, which I enjoy so much --

Josh Summers: Well, thank you.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- on memorizing -- memorizing what matters, which is Scripture.

So let's kind of go -- let's drill down a little bit and talk about memorizing Scripture. Because for a lot of people listening right now, they're inspired, but they feel totally ill-equipped. So I want us to kind of get a broad-brush view first, memorizing Scripture. Okay. Because you say there are five types of Bible memory. Okay? In your book you talk about five types of Bible memory. So let's start there. What are those five types?

Josh Summers: Yeah. I love that. I think we tend to approach Bible memory thinking, oh, you know, it's just memorizing a Bible verse. But there are, there's a lot of different ways to approach it. And the way that I wrote it in the book was just talking about what's your POINT, P-O-I-N-T.

And so P being for a passage -- right? -- like an extended passage of Scripture. So that's what I personally enjoy doing. Like, I love memorizing entire books of the Bible. Usually, let's say, the short epistles or, you know, James, Philippians, one of those. And I also enjoy the fact that when you do that, you kind of get a lot of context where -- instead of just picking out verses here and there, you get to really see the author's intention, a lot of the emotion that the author has put into that particular book, whether it's Paul, Peter, or any one of the authors of the Bible.

And then O -- well, I'll just skip over to I, because this is the one that everybody is most familiar with. And it's just individual verses, right?

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay.

Josh Summers: And this is great. This is what a lot of us have done throughout our lives, is we'll just do these individual verses. And these can be really, really helpful, especially if we're trying to find these verses that apply to certain situations that we may have come up in our lives and we want to be able to have Scripture ready whenever we want that.

But then this one -- the O is actually one that I'm really, really enjoying right now, and that's the idea of an outline. I did something on the podcast -- and we've got a YouTube channel as well -- it was a number of months ago, where me and a friend, we went through the outline of the Gospel of John, all 21 chapters, and just did an image for every chapter that kind of represented what happened in that chapter.

And so, Jennifer, I mean, it -- yes, would it be really cool if I could quote to you the story of Lazarus verbatim word for word? Yeah, I think that would be pretty neat. But wouldn't it be just as valuable to you or to me to be able to say, hey, you know, there's this story in the Bible about Lazarus. It's in John 11. Let's just open up and read that. I think there's still value in having an overview of understanding what's in the Bible, and you'd be surprised at how fast you can memorize outlines of different books and just understanding where things are. And it's especially fun with the Gospels -- right? -- because it's really story oriented.

Jennifer Rothschild: Because it's a story, yeah. Yeah.

Josh Summers: Exactly. And then you have the T, which is, you know, of course, topical, right? You know, we've heard the Romans Road. I don't know -- let's see, what else do we got? There's just a lot of -- you know, when you're anxious, when you're fearful, like, these collection of verses that have to do with a specific topic.

And then another one that a good friend of mine named Dr. Larry Dinkins talks about a lot is -- and this is a big thing called orality. But the N would be narrative stories. So instead of thinking of individual verses or even thinking, oh, my goodness, I've got to memorize an entire chapter or a book, that's just so much. But if you were to take just individual stories, maybe a parable that Jesus spoke or some story of his life here on earth that's mentioned in the Gospels, being able to have that story, you'd be surprised, once you have it internalized, once you've memorized it, it really isn't as awkward as it may sound in daily life to use that story and just, Hey, you know, that reminds me of a story. Could I tell you this quick story about this? And people are always open to hearing a story.

So when I talk about the five types of memorization, it's passages; outlines; individual verses; narrative stories, or orality, like we were just talking about; and then topical collections of verses.

Jennifer Rothschild: So what I love about that, Josh, is -- you're right, because most of us who have grown up in the church think memorizing Scripture is an individual verse. And you're showing the breadth of Scripture, plus a place for people to insert their personality, learning style, et cetera, into memorizing. And that's so important because we all are different, and the Scripture offers us so many ways to engage it and to learn it.

Now, one of the things you do in your book -- and, of course, you do this on your podcast and your YouTube channel. But I'm specifically honing in on the book because it's such a practical in-your-hand resource. Okay?

Josh Summers: Thank you.

Jennifer Rothschild: So you give 12 proven -- and that's an important word -- memory strategies. Okay? Because people are thinking, well, that might work for him, because he sounds like he's smart, but I have never memorized anything. I can't even remember my phone number. Okay?

Josh Summers: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: But these are proven memory strategies, which means we can all do it. And especially -- can I just remind us as we're listening, I call this the 4:13 Podcast based on the Scripture in Philippians 4:13, because it is through Christ. It's through Christ we can do all that he has called us to do. We can be who he's called us to be. It's not our magic pill, it's just the superpower of Dunamis, of Christ's power in us. So, yeah, we can do this. These are 12 proven strategies.

So, Josh, I want to know what some of these strategies are. Now, I know we don't have time to go through 12. But I want to know, like, what's the top three? Let's give our listeners some encouragement. And it's interesting also. So give us what your favorite top three maybe proven strategies are for memorizing.

Josh Summers: Yeah. And I love it, you know, at the top of this podcast how you always say, you know, living that "I Can" life. And I agree with you. I think that anybody who's listening to this, even if you think you have a bad memory, even if you think -- I get people saying, no, I'm too old to memorize Scripture. I completely disagree with that. I recognize that we all have different learning styles, and maybe there might be challenges, but I do believe that you can memorize more than you think that you can. And part of that is leveraging some of the way that God's designed our brains. God has designed our brains to be incredible. Like, we can remember so many things.

Imagine back to your childhood home, the home that you grew up in. I bet you if you were to close your eyes right now, you could walk through that house and you can see exactly where the stove is in the kitchen and where the TV is in the living room or where your bed is placed exactly in that bedroom that you grew up in. Our brains are very -- even if you don't think you're a visual learner, it is very visual and it is very even spatially aware.

So I'll give you a couple real quick things. One of my favorite is -- I know a lot of people who like to create flashcards. Right? So they'll put the reference of the verse on one side, and then on the back side they'll write out the whole verse. And that is a wonderful way to memorize Scripture. But one of the downsides to that is -- let's say that you're looking at that and you kind of forget a little bit what that verse was and so you have to turn that card around. And what's happening is you are giving your brain all of the information as a cheat. And so essentially you're saying, okay, you can't remember that one word, so we're just now going to give you all that information.

An alternative and one way that you can do that is instead of writing out the entire verse on the back side of the card, you can just write out the first letter of every word in that verse and have that be on the backside. So now if you need to turn it over, you haven't given your brain all of the information. You're still forcing your brain to work and to come up with that memory, and now, like, when you can look at it -- and trust me, if you try this yourself, you write out the first letter of every word. I even have my own -- I made a T-shirt, Jennifer -- I don't know if I have ever told you about this --

Jennifer Rothschild: No.

Josh Summers: -- that has basically 2 Timothy 3:16 written out on my T-shirt, but it's all just one letter at a time, the first letter of every verse. And it looks like kind of gobbledygook when I'm walking around, and so I'll get people that kind of ask me, "What is that? What in the world does that mean?" And it's just an opportunity for me to say, well, this is actually 2 Timothy 3:16, "All Scripture is God-breathed." And I can point to the letters as I'm saying it, and then the light turns on, they're like, oh, that's a verse of the Bible. So that's a great way -- that's something -- it's a technique I stole from an actor. A bunch of actors use that, among other things.

I think that there's -- this idea of habit stacking is another technique that I've really personally enjoyed a lot. So I have a Golden Retriever. She is a fantastic dog. I love having this Golden Retriever. And one of the things that I've learned to enjoy is -- she is a very active dog. She needs a walk in the morning and the evening. And during that walk -- I know I'm always going to have that walk. And during that walk -- that's a habit that I do every single day, and now I can stack on top of that. That's when I do my review. Right?

And there's a couple things about memory -- or your brain that are worth understanding. First is, when we combine exercise with brainwork, it actually strengthens the memories that we create. So if you're able to -- you know, even if it's just walking. You don't have to do strenuous exercise. But when you combine that exercise together with, let's say, reciting something that you've memorized, or even, you know, sitting there and trying to memorize something new, there's something happening that is actually strengthening that memory. And there's part of that also for me where I'm walking a certain path with my dog that helps me remember to recite certain parts of Scripture as I'm going along. So that's another one of those that I really like doing, is habit stacking.

And let me see. I'll give you one more.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, give me --

Josh Summers: Is that all right?

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. I don't know what your one more is, but then whatever your one more is, I want you to add the memory palace, if you haven't --

Josh Summers: Okay.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- that's not your one more. Okay. So you'll do three or four here, yeah.

Josh Summers: All right, yeah. So the next one I'd say would be, like, recording and listening. And some people automatically do this, but we tend to forget that this is possible even with the devices that we keep in our pockets all the time. And don't get me wrong, I love listening to professional voice actors reading the Bible, right? It's so nice to hear that. But I think there is a lot of value in taking and recording your own voice reciting whatever Scripture it is that you're wanting to have memorized. And one of the cool things is -- let's say it's not just one straight passage, there's four or five verses from different places. It's a lot harder to jump in between those places in an audio Bible than it is for just me to open up the audio app on my phone to record those verses while I'm reading them straight from Scripture to make sure I don't get anything wrong, that I'm actually reciting it correctly, and now when I'm in the car or when I'm on that walk and I want to review those verses, I can just go into my voice recording app and play that back and now I've got those verses that I can listen to at any point at any time.

Jennifer Rothschild: Here's what's interesting to me about that, Josh. I agree with you. I think intuitively I knew this, but I didn't understand it. But I do this. I will record my own voice. And I can remember when I have recorded it, when I listen to myself saying it back to me, for some reason my brain connects with that easier than when I listen to Max McLean, who I love. But when he reads me the Scripture, I don't have the capacity as easily to remember it. That is fascinating that you said that. I'm so glad you brought that out. And how doable is that for all of us? I love it.

Josh Summers: No kidding. Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. All right. Thank you, brother. Now let's move on.

Josh Summers: Yes. And hopefully all of these that I've just shared feel simple enough that anybody who's listening to this can do that. Because I know that what I'm about to come up with next, the sharing about the mind palace, can at least to some people just feel really daunting. But I don't want you to feel like -- it's worth a try and it's not for everybody.

But a mind palace is a memory technique. It's been around for, like, thousands of years. We have writings from people back in antiquity that talk about what we call the method of loci. So this idea that our brains are very good at spatial awareness, like I was talking about a few minutes ago where you can walk through the house where you grew up in.

So what I've done is -- let's say I've got my house here in Thailand. And the outside of my house, if I were to -- I can literally walk from my gate and go around the outside of my house and I can recite to you Galatians Chapter 1, because I have the place for verse 1, and I've put a couple images on that place and that helps me remember, you know, to start there, and then go in to verse 2, verse 3, verse 4, and walking in a line or in a very sequential order going around the house.

And then I get into the house and that's where I start Chapter 2. And I've got a place going from the entryway into the kitchen. And so I -- a memory palace. And granted, this is a larger palace that I'm talking about where, okay, then the dining room is Chapter 3, the living room is Chapter 4. I go upstairs and my boys' bedrooms are Chapter 5, and then we finish off mine and my wife's bedroom being Chapter 6 of Galatians. So that's one example.

But even a more simple example -- and maybe I should have started with this one. I apologize, Jennifer. But, like, I'm sitting in my office right now. In this office, I have put the Book of Jude. Jude is a very short book. And so I can -- this one room -- it's just a box. And I put the first verse on the door, and then I can go around and actually recite the Book of Jude. And there's a couple advantages. There's reasons why I do this. One of them is when I was younger, I had memorized parts of the Book of James through what's known as rote repetition. And this is what I think a lot of people do when they think of Bible memory. And it's not a bad thing. But it's where you're just repeating something 100 times over and over and over again until it's almost impossible for you to forget it. Right?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Josh Summers: Yeah. But along with that comes -- I've met a lot of people who just get kind of bored with that. Right? It's just this repetition and it feels like you're just pounding this into your head as opposed to enjoying the process.

And one of the other disadvantages is it's very linear. So I found that if I was reciting something that I had memorized through rote repetition and I fumbled on a word, I couldn't remember that word, suddenly I was lost for the rest of the passage that I had memorized. Like, it was all a chain link and if I broke one link in that chain, being very linear, I would lose it. Whereas when you're dealing with something like a mind palace, you're looking at an entire map. And what that allows you to do -- and I've done this -- this happens to me all the time when I'm walking my dog in the morning. I'll be reciting, let's say -- right now I'm going through 1 Peter Chapter 1. And if I get to verse, let's say -- verse 13 tends to trip me up a little bit. You know, "Therefore, with minds that are alert and fully sober," you know, going into there, and then I'll be like, oh, my goodness, what is it? It's something about grace. And so then I'll be able to think to myself, okay, when I get back, let's look at verse 13 again. But since I already know what 14 is, I'm going to go ahead and skip to 14. "As obedient children," and then I can continue on.

Jennifer Rothschild: Wow.

Josh Summers: But it allows me to not necessarily lose that chain, because when you're dealing with a memory palace, you're creating these locations that you know what's next even if you've maybe forgotten what you put on one of those locations. Did I explain that okay, Jennifer?

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, you explained it beautifully. And I appreciate the illustrations. Because I believe -- even though I'm blind, I believe most of us are visual thinkers to some degree. And so especially on a podcast, when we've got you and me in people's ears, but we're all seeing something in our minds' eyes. So you just described it beautifully.

And I really -- I'm just telling you, my friends, I have learned so much from Josh and been affirmed. Our brains are amazing. God made our brains amazing. And this is not something for just memory athletes; this is something for all of us. We have this capacity.

And, in fact, I was listening -- this reminded me, Josh. I was listening to one of your podcasts a while back. And it was a shorter one, and I don't remember the title now, but I think you were dealing somewhat with the efficiency of Scripture memory. So there are a couple things you said on that podcast that I want to visit here, because I think they kind of fit with what we're talking about. You suggested that we should set a time goal, not a verse goal, when you're working on memorizing. Talk to us about that and why that matters.

Josh Summers: Yeah. I think -- and, you know, I did this a couple years ago, Jennifer, where I actually set a huge goal for myself that I -- and I still have this goal -- that I want to eventually memorize the New Testament of the Bible. I think that would be amazing to have that in my older age. But sometimes when we set goals like that, even if it's something much, much smaller -- right? -- I want to do one verse a week, there are parts of that where when we set that goal -- and it's a noble thing to set that goal. But there's nothing about that and actually achieving that goal that really gets us into what -- does what we're hoping that it's going to do, I should say. Like God -- we're not going to meet the Lord at the end of our lives, and he's not going to say, "Wait. So how many verses did you memorize?" you know?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Josh Summers: So what it can end up doing -- goals can sometimes backfire and really discourage us. Because it's like, oh, my goodness, I was supposed to do one a week, I should have five done right now, but I've only got two that I can remember, now I've got to spend all this time, and we just get discouraged about it. And I would challenge anybody who's listening to this right now, if this is something that is inspiring you to go, oh, man, I really do want to start memorizing more of Scripture, don't worry about setting a particular verse number goal. Just say, okay, if this is something I want to do, let's set aside five minutes every day and really focus on memorizing Scripture. You know, just looking at that one verse that I want to do for this week, and doing that and going back and spending some time reviewing. But I think that by setting that time goal, it's much easier -- you're not going to fall behind on that time goal. And hopefully, you know, if you miss one day, just try not to miss two in a row and keep moving in that direction. And you're going to find that, one, you're going to memorize, again, more than you thought you could, but I think you're going to have less discouragement along the way.

Jennifer Rothschild: I love that. That's why I wanted you to address it, because I think that is so measurable, and you're getting time with the Lord in His Word as you're doing it. I love that.

Okay. Something else you said on that particular podcast, which I think fits with what we're talking about, plus it's so encouraging. You made a statement -- and, of course, I love great alliteration -- of forgetting fosters focus. Because we get discouraged when we forget a word, a verse, whatever. But you say forgetting fosters focus. Explain that.

Josh Summers: Yeah. So part of -- and, Jennifer, when you were on the podcast a while back, I think you stirred in me, just in part of the things that you were talking about when we had this conversation about what we understand, like understanding Scripture, that's ultimately what we're trying to do when we memorize it, is internalizing it and applying it. But part of that is understanding what it is that we're memorizing.

But the fact is, again, you know, we recite it to ourselves and we get a little discouraged when we forget something. But instead of -- let's say you're reciting a verse that you've been going along and you do forget that word. Instead of getting frustrated about it, instead turn that into a moment where you can focus and say, okay, what is it -- like, why would the author even use this particular word that I am forgetting every single time? Like, why did Paul use this particular turn of phrase or why did Peter say this word or -- I mean, we could even say why did the translator use this word instead of another word that they could have translated that particular Hebrew or Greek word for. And focusing then in hopes that now I can gain a deeper understanding.

Because, you know, any of us who are in God's Word, we don't want to just be regurgitating it for the sake of regurgitating it. I don't want to just be able to say it, I want it to have meaning. And like you were saying, the Scripture does have life, and I want to bring that to life for myself and then for anybody else that I recite that to, and part of doing that is understanding what it is that I'm actually saying. And so I'm okay if I forget something because that forgetting, it fosters a focus on the text.

Jennifer Rothschild: It's such an encouragement. Because forgetting is not failure. It really does help us focus more and study. Because the goal is just like you said, it's not just being able to regurgitate; it's to have it regenerate. There's a little turn of phrase. We want the Scripture to regenerate.

Okay. Josh, we're going to get to our last question. And I want us to be super practical, because I see you very much as a coach here. Okay? So KC and I are going to introduce our friends where they can go to get the book, we're going to have links to all the podcasts and all that. But I know you have something that you want to provide for our listeners. So I would love for you to share that with us and then I want to get to our last very practical question.

Josh Summers: Yeah. Well, thank you very much for an opportunity to be able to even share this, Jennifer. But I have a friend, her name is Janet Pope, and she said something to me recently where she was like, "I don't just want to inspire people to memorize Scripture; I want to empower them." Because somebody who's inspired, but not empowered, walks away just going, wow, Scripture memory is cool, and then they do nothing.

But like you talk about in this podcast, the "I Can" life, and I want people to be able to walk away from that, my goal with this book is not to sell a million copies; my goal is to be able to empower people. And so to that end, I've decided -- and I've set up a page so everybody here -- I mean, you're welcome to go to Amazon and purchase the book if you want, but I would love to just give you a copy of -- a digital copy of the book. So if you go to memorizewhatmatters.com/413 -- so you should be able to memorize -- you should be able to remember that. But memorizewhatmatters.com/413, and I will just give you the whole book -- you can read through all 12 of those -- because I just want you to feel empowered to be able to do this. I don't want you to listen to this and walk away and go, yeah, you know, that would be a good idea. I want you to start thinking about how can I implement this for myself, and maybe how can I even, you know, inspire my kids or my family to join me in this, because I think that's a really cool way to do it as well.

Jennifer Rothschild: I just appreciate your generosity. And it does give people the opportunity to take immediate action. And then, my people, then we go to Amazon and we also buy the book so that we have it to refer to later, and we can mark it up and we can give it away. Because I do want to support what Josh is doing.

All right, Josh, we're going to get to our last question. And you're going to turn into our memory coach right now. Okay?

Josh Summers: Okay.

Jennifer Rothschild: So we are inspired. And some of us have memorized Scripture before; some of us have never. But we're going to look at the individual verse. Okay. So we all want to memorize one verse today. All right? We just want to memorize one verse. So can you give us, perhaps -- I know I'm putting you on the spot, brother. Okay. But what verse can we choose as a family here, 4:13 family, what verse can we choose to memorize, and what method can we use to memorize it today?

Josh Summers: Okay. You are putting me on the spot, but hopefully this will --

Jennifer Rothschild: I know, brother. Sorry.

Josh Summers: No, this is great. This is great. I think this is -- hopefully this will work out. Okay? So wherever you're listening to this, whether you're doing your dishes -- don't do this if you're driving, but you can still listen in. But let's just take Isaiah 30:21 as an example. I'm going to read this out, and so I want you to listen carefully, and then I'm going to talk us through some things. So, "Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you saying, 'This is the way, walk in it.'" All right?

And so as I recite that again, one of the things that we can do -- it's one of the other strategies that is used by actors all the time that I didn't really talk about before, is using hand motions, like actually moving your body. And this is a great one because it's even talking about it, right? So you can think -- you can actually literally turn to the right and turn to the left. And then I would put my ear -- my hands up behind my ears -- right? -- to say, "your ears will hear a voice behind you." And then I would use kind of this sign language. So for me, "the way," you know, being those two hands kind of going up and down in front of me showing, like, a path. This is the way, walk in it.

So again, if you want to -- as I'm reciting it, if you want to actually do the motions. Right? So this is Isaiah 30:21. "Whether you turn to the right or to the left" -- I'm literally moving my body -- "your ears" -- I'm cupping my hands behind my ears -- "will hear a voice behind you saying, 'This is the way, walk in it.'" And I've got my hands in front of me showing the path right here.

So that's just one of the ways that you could continue to memorize Scripture. And even make it fun for your kids, like, have them all stand up and do that with you.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Okay, love it. 4:13ers, we are memorizing this today.

Oh, Josh, this has been fantastic. Thanks for being part of the 4:13 family. God bless you, bro.

Josh Summers: Thank you so much.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right, KC, let's see if we can do it.

KC Wright: Let's do it.

Jennifer Rothschild: Hands up. Get ready.

KC Wright: Okay.

Jennifer Rothschild: "Whether you turn to the" --

Jennifer and KC: -- "right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you saying, 'This is the way, walk in it.'"

KC Wright: Love it.

Jennifer Rothschild: We did it. Okay, our people, you heard how to do it, so do it. Okay? You can memorize Isaiah 30:21 today. Prove to your brain that God equips that beautiful brain of yours to do what God designed it to do. Okay? So just memorize what matters.

You may have heard KC at the end of last week talking about how he can remember movie lines and his friend can remember dad jokes. We can remember things. So let's tell our brains and focus, because we can memorize what really matters.

KC Wright: Seriously, seriously good stuff today. This podcast is such a resource. You need to hear it again and share it. Please share it on your social media. Share it to spread this encouragement. We can do this, 4:13 family. Go to the Show Notes now at 413podcast.com/335 to link to the page Josh mentioned to get his free digital download of the book free.

Jennifer Rothschild: I love that.

KC Wright: And then get the book. We will have links to his podcast, his YouTube, his book, you know, all the things.

Jennifer Rothschild: All the things you will need.

KC Wright: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: And just in case you do have a good memory and you can remember URLs, well, go to memorizewhatmatters.com/413. That's memorizewhatmatters.com/413. But, of course, we are going to have the link on the Show Note, but that's to get to the book that he is providing for free. So generous.

KC Wright: Otherwise, all you need is on the Show Notes at 413podcast.com/335.

All right, family, this podcast is definitely in our Hall of Fame. And I am motivated. I know you've been motivated too. So turn your motivation into action --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

KC Wright: -- because faith without works is dead.

Jennifer Rothschild: Dead.

KC Wright: You can because you can do all things through Christ who gives you strength. I can.

Jennifer Rothschild: And so can I. And that means --

KC Wright: And you can.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- you. You can.

KC Wright: You can.

Jennifer Rothschild: Everybody. All the people.


 

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