4:13 Podcast: Can I Live a Daring Faith for Such a Time As This? With Kelly Minter [Episode 337]

Kelly Minter: It brings us great hope, because no matter what we're facing in our lives, no matter how bleak things look or how dark things look or, man, this person who's unjust has power, but, oh, wow, I serve a God that can reverse that at any moment. Anything in our life, we see that God has the power to reverse. And it is, it's a huge, huge theme in Esther. And I love getting to talk about that because I think it's so encouraging. And it's not just unique to the Book of Esther, it is something that we see in both the Old Testament and in the New Testament. And what greater reversal is there than Jesus being crucified on a cross? And it seems that all is lost, all is done, death, and it is through the resurrection, it is through the reversal he gets resurrected, and now he has conquered sin through his death. We have life through death. I mean, there's no greater reversal.

Jennifer Rothschild: On today's 4:13, author and Bible teacher Kelly Minter invites you into the daring faith modeled by Esther and her cousin Mordechai, a faith that was developed over time, rooted in the goodness of God, lived out through extraordinary circumstances, and used to change the world. Although our time might look very different from Esther's, our God is just as active and faithful today, and he has called you for such a time as this.

So let's dive into this fascinating book of the Bible with this amazing woman, Kelly, and discover how Esther's story can inspire our own. And by the way, if you love to geek out, you are going to love this episode. So, KC, here we go.

KC Wright: Welcome to the 4:13 Podcast, where practical encouragement and biblical wisdom set you up to live the "I Can" life, because you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.

Now, welcome your host, Jennifer Rothschild.

Jennifer Rothschild: Hey, friends, it's Jennifer here. And my goal is to help you be and do more than you feel capable of as you're living the "I Can" life. It's just me and KC in here in the closet. You know by now, two friends, one topic, and zero --

KC Wright: Zero --

Jennifer and KC: -- stress.

Jennifer Rothschild: I hope everything's going well for you this week. I'm just super thankful that you've joined us.

KC and I were talking before we started here just about what's going on in our lives, and I was thinking -- you know, he has such fun stories because he's a single dad --

KC Wright: Right.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- of a young woman. And we're talking about a young woman today, Esther. Okay?

KC Wright: Yeah. Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: And so let's get the other side of young women. You've got to tell them what you told me about your darling Elly and what happened with the dog.

KC Wright: Yeah. So for Elly's 13th birthday, I got -- I wanted to do something epic, and I got Elly a little wiener dog named Kobe.

Jennifer Rothschild: He's so cute.

KC Wright: And she loves Kobe.

Jennifer Rothschild: More than you?

KC Wright: More than me. I mean, this dog is her life. She loves Kobe. And he got lost the other night. We put him out the front door instead of the back door, and she went hysterical. He was out in the dark, he didn't have his collar on, it was late. And here's my put-together little cutie daughter, and she's standing in the doorway, porch lights on, holding her head, pulling her hair, going, "Why? Why? Why? Why did we do it?" And I said, "Just calm down. We're going to pray. Whatever's hidden shall be revealed," and here comes Kobe. Okay?

Jennifer Rothschild: So she had a meltdown over the dog?

KC Wright: Meltdown. Hysterical meltdown. Within 24 hours later, we were in a fender-bender. Hit by a Chevy Silverado in the back. All is well. No injuries, no airbag deployment.

Jennifer Rothschild: Everything was fine.

KC Wright: When we were hit, do you know what this child of mine did?

Jennifer Rothschild: Meltdown?

KC Wright: She said, "It's okay. We're fine. Everything's fine. You're fine, I'm fine. The Jeep can be repaired. Let's just calm down." She was talking me off the edge.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, that's hilarious.

KC Wright: Well, I started laughing, yeah. Because, I mean, like, 24 hours ago, you were hysterical over a dog. We just got hit by a truck and you're like, "It's okay"?

Jennifer Rothschild: Everything's fine.

KC Wright: It's okay.

Jennifer Rothschild: Everything's fine.

KC Wright: Everything's fine.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, welcome to the world of woman.

KC Wright: Right.

Jennifer Rothschild: Just when you think you can predict our behavior --

KC Wright: Right.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- nah.

KC Wright: Nah.

Jennifer Rothschild: Nah. Okay. But I love that because that is so typical. And listen, she may be, you know, 13.

KC Wright: Right.

Jennifer Rothschild: She could be 33, she could be 83.

KC Wright: Come on.

Jennifer Rothschild: That is how we are.

KC Wright: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: That is how we are.

KC Wright: Uh-huh.

Jennifer Rothschild: But I will tell you this. I panic more over little things. Like, oh, my gosh, I can't find my mascara. Right? One time I accidentally fell off the deck into the lake.

KC Wright: What?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. And I did not panic at all. I was just cool, calm, and collected. I was like, be still, you'll float up. I floated up. Everybody around me's panicking; I was cool, calm, and collected.

KC Wright: Wow.

Jennifer Rothschild: But, yeah, if I lose my mascara, I freak out. So I don't know what's up with us women, but here we are.

And what I love -- because we're going to hear about this today -- God chose a woman in Esther for such a time as this. Y'all, Kelly Minter is one of my favorite Bible teachers and friends, and what she's done with Esther is really cool. So don't assume you've heard all this, because I have a feeling you're going to learn some new things today. So let's introduce Kelly.

KC Wright: Kelly Minter is an author, Bible teacher, and podcaster herself. The personal healing and steadfast hope she's found in the pages of Scripture fuel her passion to connect God's Word to our everyday lives. When she's not writing or teaching, you can find her tending her garden, taking a walk with friends, cooking for her nieces and nephews, or riding a boat down the Amazon River with Justice & Mercy International.

Now, enjoy this great conversation on Esther with Jennifer and Kelly.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right, Kelly. Before we started this, I told you I was distracted just having a friend conversation, because you are one of my favorite people. And so I'm honored that we get to have a conversation with our other friends, our 4:13 friends, because we're talking about one of my favorite things. We're talking about Scripture. And the Lord has gifted you with Bible studies, so we're going to talk about your Bible study on the Book of Esther. But we got to start with a spoiler. God's name is never once mentioned in the Book of Esther.

Kelly Minter: Right.

Jennifer Rothschild: And also, really we don't get to hear a lot about Esther as a human being, as a woman. We don't get to hear a lot about her faith either. So how did you approach studying this book and writing a Bible study on a book of the Bible that doesn't mention God?

Kelly Minter: Yeah. So I never want to say that's the least of our worries, because that's kind of the top of our worries -- right? -- that God's not mentioned. But I will also say neither is prayer specifically, neither is Scripture, neither is faith, the temple, sacrifices, priests, a prophet. There's nothing in the Book of Esther that is explicitly mentioned about God or the faith of Israel. But there's a lot that is lingering, lurking in the background that when all taken together, it's actually quite obvious that God is with his people, the Jews. So there are lots and lots of ties.

But the way that I kind of approached it, that gets me really excited, is that if you take the Book of Esther up against the books of Ezra and Nehemiah -- which technically I guess in the Hebrew Bible it was just one book. But if you take it up against those two books, you really get some understanding. Now, if you're just like, hey, hold on, I was lost at Esther. What are you even talking about Ezra and Nehemiah? I don't even know what you're talking about. Well, so the very short version is that all of those books come near the end of the Old Testament chronologically speaking, and so you have what scholars and people who study the Bible refer to as the exile. So we had some really horrible things that happened in Israel and the people were scattered, they were exiled out of their homeland. So for us just kind of everyday listeners, we just think of some of the horrible things that might be going on in the world right now where people are refugees, where they have to flee their homeland and they have to go live someplace else. Well, that's what happened to Israel. They were scattered all over Babylon, and then later the Persian Empire.

But the reason I say you read them up against each other is if you look at Nehemiah and Ezra, those are all the people that went back to their homeland. So if we think in our terms today, like, getting back home, getting back home to our people, our foods, our customs, our places of worship, our God, all of that, they went back.

Esther represents the story of the people that didn't go back, that were a 900-mile journey away from home and that were in a godless secularized society. And we get to see that God isn't just with the people that are back in Jerusalem, back with the temple, but he's with the people all the way in a pagan empire, even an empire with a harem.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Kelly Minter: A woman named Esther, who is taken as part of that harem, who becomes queen through not the best of circumstances. Who's a Jewish woman undercover, married to a Gentile pagan king. You got to cut me off, Jennifer. So --

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, no. I'm glad you're going into this. Because that was one of the things I realized as we were talking, I thought, you know, some people may not know what Esther is about. Okay, so you're starting to explain it. So how did Esther end up in this harem? How did she end up marrying a king? And was she on purpose keeping her Judaism a secret? Like, give us kind of the inside scoop on this story.

Kelly Minter: Yeah. So the story kind of begins with this elaborate empire, largest empire in the world up until that time. Amazing, amazing empire. And the king, Xerxes, or Ahasuerus depending on what version -- but Ahasuerus is the Persian name and Xerxes is the Greek name. But the same guy. Anyway, he has a wife named Vashti. He wants her to come in and parade herself in front of all of this big party he's having, and she says no. And then he gets rid of her essentially. She's dethroned. It's terrible, awful. And we don't really hear from her again.

And so after a few years, and after the king has been humbled in war -- we don't get that part of the Bible, but he's been humbled in war. And then his advisors try to cheer him up, and so they gather this massive harem. They pull all of these young virgins into the empire, into the palace. Super sad and just awful. And to our modern-day ears, you know, really awful awful.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, yeah. Right, right.

Kelly Minter: And so each kind of woman in the harem has her turn in the king's bedroom, and Esther is shown favor. That's kind of a tough word to be able to make sense of in a situation like that. But eventually it says that the king loved her more than any of the others, and so she gets chosen to be queen. But, yes, she is hiding her Jewish heritage because her cousin Mordechai, who adopted her, who's in the king's court, he says, "Listen, you need to keep this under cover." Probably he's trying to just protect her, you know.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right, right.

Kelly Minter: And different scholars have different opinions on that. But there are some scholars that say, hey, it's not that she was doing anything wrong; she just wasn't coming out with it, you know, for who knows all the reasons. But probably for protection. And so she becomes queen, yeah.

And then the plot really thickens. There is an enemy of the Jews named Haman. He's horrible and there's a long, long history of his heritage against the Jews. And so he kind of represents the enemy of the Jews. And Mordecai won't bow down and so he wants to kill Mordecai. And then eventually he just puts out this decree that he wants every single Jew annihilated throughout the entire Persian Empire, which would have also included Jerusalem, would have included the Promised Land. It would have included everybody that was back in the land. And so the story goes that Esther has to make a determination. Is she going to sort of like hide her Jewish heritage and enjoy the comforts of the palace or will she stand up for her people and identify with the people of God -- and probably some of you know this line -- for such a time as this? That is kind of the crux of the story.

And one cool thing that I love, Jennifer, is that before Esther identifies with the people of God, she is referred to as Queen one time. And I believe that after that, after she identifies, she is identified as Queen Esther 13 times in the book. And so we really see that she doesn't really step into her God-given identity until she identifies with his people and is ready to get on board with his call on her life and his plan. So it's pretty amazing. I mean, we could talk a long time about every one of these chapters.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Well, that alone right there will preach until she fully stepped into her identity. By the way, you said we could get into each of these chapters. How many chapters are there in the Book of Esther? Is it a long one?

Kelly Minter: Oh, way to ask me. Oh, I've got it right here. Ten.

Jennifer Rothschild: Ten. Okay. Yeah, I know.

Kelly Minter: I should know that off the top of my head.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, as much time as you spent in it, though, sometimes we have familiarity fatigue and we just forget because we're so used to it. Yeah.

Kelly Minter: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, so ten chapters. That shouldn't take that long. So if you're listening and if you've never read the Book of Esther, you need to read the Book of Esther before you do this Esther Bible study with Kelly.

Now, that was really kind of like a Netflix, like, teaser, like, here's what it's about. But here's what I want to know from a scholarly perspective. Okay? Because some people question if the events in the Book of Esther actually happened.

Kelly Minter: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: And other scholars think that even if those things did happen, the Book of Esther does not belong in the biblical canon. You just named some reasons why I can imagine they would think it doesn't belong. But what are the reasons for those things, and what do you think?

Kelly Minter: Okay. So the first question is that, oh, yeah, that some people just don't even believe that they really happened at all. Yet there are scholars that would probably identify as more progressive and look at Scripture as -- some of it as fiction. Some see the genre as being more of, like, a play or...

So I would just say if we're going to do that with Esther, we probably would have a lot of reason to do that a lot of other places in the Bible, and so I'm kind of coming at this from the standpoint that it is real. And we could go in for hours and hours, you know, on why that is. But I'm kind of taking that position that this really did happen.

I also will just throw this out too. The only non-Mosaic feast other than Hanukkah, but the only non-Mosaic feast that is still being practiced today that's Old Testament -- Hanukkah is not Old Testament -- is Purim, which is the feast that originates in the Book of Esther. So I'm kind of like, are we really going to be, gosh, 2,500 years in on a festival that originated out of fiction? I'm going to say no. I'm going to say Jewish people are celebrating this today. It's hard to imagine that that comes out of fiction. That's one thing.

But the other thing that I think is more interesting that you asked was the second question, is why does it belong in the canon? And I think that, for one thing, there's just all of the scholarship for why it got in the canon all the years that it did. But I would say the way -- I love how I -- for the reason that I open with, is that we get the other side of where is God when we're in exile? Where is God when we are in a harem or we're in the pagan empire or we are in -- just dripping with wealth and materialism to our own demise? Is God still working there, or does he only work back in Jerusalem? Does he only work if you're one of the people that gets to go to the temple, if you're one of the people that -- and so to me, this is a huge counterbalance to that and shows that, yes, God is at work, yes, God is still doing incredible things. I would say that's one thing.

I would also say there's no explicit miracle in the Book of Esther. But when you take all of the providential kind of, quote/unquote, normal things that happen and you put them together, it's a miracle. But there's no miracle, but it is a miracle. And so we see God's providence.

I also -- and this is just my personal opinion, and everybody listening can take this as they will. I think God is not mentioned in the Book of Esther, because I think -- and again, this is just me here. But I think it is supposed to resemble what life felt like for the Jews during that time. Because they were in this pagan society and they didn't have access to the temple. We don't know how much access they had to God's Word. Were the people just going along sort of like, yeah, historically religiously, yeah, we're Jews, but I don't even know if any of that stuff is true anymore. I don't even know if that's -- you know, has God forsaken us? I feel like the author wants us to feel the absence of God when we are living for empire.

And so to me, what I found is I long for God when I read Esther. I long for Jesus when I read Esther. And I think the author wanted to elicit that in us, to go, hey, this is not -- I don't want to live like God just kind of exists out there in my -- you know, someplace. Or I've got him in my back pocket religiously, you know, like, Well, I'm Baptist, or I'm Catholic, or I'm -- I think it's there to make us long for God and really long for Jesus, because Jesus is so utterly different than King Xerxes. In fact, there was one scholar that says the Book of Esther should make us long for the Kingdom of Heaven.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Kelly Minter: So that's just kind of my personal opinion. But, yeah, there's so much we could just talk about.

Jennifer Rothschild: I love all that, Kelly. And there's something, I think, that is very conspicuous about the absence --

Kelly Minter: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- of the name of God. And I love some of those reasons that you shared. I even love your view on it. I just really think that's something interesting to ponder.

One thing you said, though, and you didn't say, was the author of Esther several times. You said the author, the author. Who is the author?

Kelly Minter: We do not know.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. Okay.

Kelly Minter: We do not know the author. And I don't even know that there are any really good guesses, so...

Jennifer Rothschild: Which is cool, actually. I think that's cool. Well, and you're right, if we started to say, well, Esther doesn't belong because, then we would have to say, well, Jonah doesn't belong because. So I think that we are going to take the Word as the Word, and by faith.

Now, one of the themes in the Book of Esther that you pull out is that God reverses people's circumstances. So tell us about this theme of reversals and, like, how does that impact you and me today in our lives?

Kelly Minter: I love it. Yes, it's a huge theme. It's a huge theme. And I hope you will read through the book, you know, if you haven't ever read it. But, yeah, God reverses, like, so many specific things, where one person is brought low and then the other person's brought high and then that gets reversed. Or one person has nothing and then all of a sudden they have everything. Or one person has power and then they have no power, you know. A group of people are destined for death and then they're saved. I mean, it just -- I could go on and on and on about the reversals.

But we see that that is part of God's nature, that he is a God who enacts reversals. And we don't just see that in Esther. We see that in much more explicitly Judeo-Christian references like Hannah. Hannah has a prayer about how God makes the hungry full or the empty satiated or the one without children with children. Like, we see that. And then we see Mary in The Magnificat really pull off Hannah's prayer. So all these reversals. That's another kind of tacit thing that's there that God reverses. And it brings us great hope, because no matter what we're facing in our lives, no matter how bleak things look or how dark things look or, man, this person who's unjust has power, but, oh, wow, I serve a God that can reverse that at any moment. Anything in our life, we see that God has the power to reverse. And it is, it's a huge, huge theme in Esther. And I love getting to talk about that because I think it's so encouraging.

And it's not just unique to the Book of Esther, it is something that we see in both the Old Testament and in the New Testament. And what greater reversal is there than Jesus being crucified on a cross. And it seems that all is lost, all is done, death, and it is through the resurrection, it is through the reversal he gets resurrected, and now he has conquered sin through his death. We have life through death. I mean, there's no greater reversal. So we get all these hints of it in the Book of Esther.

Jennifer Rothschild: Wow, I love it. Yeah, victory through what appears to be defeat. Reversal, reversal. Okay, that's beautiful. That's another reason to be encouraged.

And so I think about Esther. And after you've studied her so much -- I'm talking about the woman Esther within the Book of Esther.

Kelly Minter: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. As you've studied her so much -- like, sometimes when I study a book -- like, I wrote a Bible study on Amos. So the longer I studied the Book of Amos, I started to really clue into the person Amos, the prophet himself. What his personality must have been like, what he must have felt like when such and such happened. So I'm curious -- because I've not read Esther with that kind of detail, but my very cursory surface memory is I don't remember thinking anything about the emotions of Esther. She seemed to be a person of action, that was it. She just did the thing. Did you ever detect any personality of Esther, how she must have felt in this situation? I mean, can you glean anything -- I'm not asking you to create something out of God's Word that's not there --

Kelly Minter: Sure.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- but as woman to woman, what did you determine about Esther and her personality?

Kelly Minter: Yeah. I mean, I will say there's not a ton to hang on because there's not a lot of dialogue. I do, though, get that she's afraid. It does say that she was overcome with fear in Chapter 4:4. So at least we know that she's a woman of emotions, she's a normal human being.

I will say this about her as well. I -- with all due respect to her -- and I actually mean this as a compliment -- I found her kind of normal, if that makes sense. But she becomes extraordinary because she steps into what God has for her. So she's beautiful, like, we get that part, and she does seem to be deferential. She doesn't seem to be wielding that. We do have very slight hints about her personality where, you know, she defers to what the servants tell her to do. And she doesn't bring an elaborate amount to the king's bedroom when she could have brought what she wanted. So we see those pieces of her.

But then she's overcome with fear. And really, she doesn't want to step out there, she doesn't want -- it's not her idea. In fact, that whole famous verse of "Perhaps you've come to your royal position for such a time as this," a lot of times we almost credit that to Esther, but Esther did not say that. Mordecai said that to her as he is really trying to talk her into, Hey, don't think you're going to be saved and spared just because you're in the palace. I mean, there are some scholars that think that basically Mordecai was saying to her, You could die either way, but you're definitely going to die if you don't step up. If you step up, maybe God will save everybody through you; but if you don't, death is imminent.

So you get kind of a normalness to her. But that's what I love about her. Because, honestly, I can identify with her a lot more than -- as much as I love Ruth. But, I mean, like, Ruth is just a rock star all the way around. You know what I mean? From top to bottom. And I feel like Esther -- you're kind of like, who is this person?

But then she says, "Okay, go fast for me. And if I perish, I perish." Then she steps out and she faces the king, knowing that she could die because she hasn't been summoned. She hasn't been summoned. And you could die if you are not summoned and you approach the king. But he extends the scepter to her, and then she invites him and Haman to a banquet. And then she invites them to another banquet. And you're not really sure why. Is that because she's afraid, or is it because she's smart, or is it because the Holy Spirit's leading her? Like, we don't know.

But I like her. I think that was another thing, is, like, I had -- when I piloted the Bible study with a group of young girls, there was one girl in the group and she just didn't like her. She felt like she wanted to see a more, like, morally noble, like, obedient, you know, Bible quoting kind of, you know, hero out there. And I'm like kind of like, Hey, I like her. She's adopted. Both of her parents have passed away. She's got this Jewish heritage. She's in a harem. Now she's married to this awful pagan king. I mean, I don't know. I like the stances that she takes.

But what I like the most about her personality, I think, Jennifer, is just that she steps in and we see her grow. We see her character grow. We see her become who I believe God has intended her to be. And I think if she hadn't have stepped up for such a time of this -- yes, Mordecai even said it, God was going to save his people another way -- she would have missed the opportunity to be part of it. And here we are 2,500 years later talking about her.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. And the fact that she's normal. Which I love that. Because, I mean, I just got this image --

Kelly Minter: And that's just me. You know, don't --

Jennifer Rothschild: Right?

Kelly Minter: I probably should just totally take that back. But Kelly Minter thinks Esther is normal. But I kind of do, you know.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, I mean, there is no -- that is not abiblical. It is not non-biblical. And it's perfectly fine to see that she's just a normal woman. Like, you could be at Walmart with her. You know what I'm saying? Except she'd be drop-dead gorgeous.

Kelly Minter: And a queen, right.

Jennifer Rothschild: And a queen. Well, and then there's that. But maybe you'd get a good discount if you went shopping with the queen. Anyway...

Kelly Minter: That's true.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right, let's go to another theme in the Bible study. Okay, so another theme -- you already mentioned this, and I just want to go a little deeper -- is that God never abandons his people, even when, you know, they're far away from their faith community or living in exile, as Israel was. So let's talk about in a very practical way, how does this truth show up and resonate with believers today?

Kelly Minter: Yeah, I think that we -- especially for the person that feels like they're too far gone or it's over, I already made the biggest mistake of my life, or I'm on this side of a tragedy or this side of hopelessness, that God is never ever going to not fulfill his covenant with his people. And how much more now that we are living this side of the cross with Jesus Christ. I mean, he keeps his promises of redemption.

So the way I look at it is that really you could carve the Old Testament down the middle -- and it's not really the middle. But you could cut it right in half and say everything before the exile was on some level life as it was supposed to be. But when that exile happened and everybody got moved out -- not just that, but the Holy Spirit, the presence of the Living God, it says in Ezekiel, got up and left the temple and left Jerusalem. I mean, it has to be the saddest moment in Israel's history. And nothing will ever go back to the before.

And I think so many people live like that, like, hey, there was the before and the after, and they can look at this one moment in their life and say there was before and now I'm living the after. And because we're on the after, we think there's no hope. And I think the Book of Esther -- and Ezra and Nehemiah -- but the Book of Esther says even after that, even after exile, even after the spirit of the Living God leaving Jerusalem, even in a faraway place, God is faithful. And God sends salvation to the people in Jerusalem from Persia, from the capital city of Persia. We can't forget that either. That salvation does not come for the Jews out of Jerusalem, it comes in the pagan palace where God has put one of his people.

And so no matter where you are, no matter how far away you feel, no matter what your heritage is or how broken the situation, there's no situation that God cannot use. And, I mean, I wrestled with this, Jennifer, so much. I had to get up -- I know you know how this is writing. But, like, I got up for ten cups of tea and pieces of chocolate. When I got to that point about, like -- she's in a harem. How is God going to work this for good? How? How can he be here? And then it felt like the Lord said, if he's not in a harem, then where does it matter where else he is? Like, he's got to be in those places too or else he's not a redemptive God. And so I really struggled with it, but at the same time I thought, man, there's no place where he's not.

Jennifer Rothschild: Word. Okay, that was so good right there. Wow, Kelly.

Well, I love everything you write, and I love to hear you teach, so I'm really thrilled about this Bible study. And let me just ask you a quick question. We're about to get to our last one. This is not it. But just in a practical matter, does this Bible study also have free video access?

Kelly Minter: Yes. Yeah, the video access is included in the study. So I go into all of this a lot more --

Jennifer Rothschild: On the teaching?

Kelly Minter: -- on the teaching videos, yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. Because y'all, if you've never seen Kelly teach, you will enjoy that. So you'll not only get the daily time just doing the Bible study yourself, but then you get to watch the video of Kelly kind of helping you even unpack further what you've learned. So I'm glad it's on video.

All right, sister, we're going to get to our last question. And you've already shared so much, so I feel a little bit unfair doing this to you. But what are -- just like that come to the top of your head -- one or two things that you personally, Kelly Minter, learned from Esther that really encouraged you as a woman, as a single woman, as an aging woman, as a woman who life hasn't been perfect for, whatever, you pick your thing. Because I would just love for you to leave us with some very practical encouragement from the Book of Esther.

Kelly Minter: Yeah, I got one that's easy for me. So in between the banquets that Esther -- Esther has these two banquets with the king and Haman, and she's trying to figure out how to save the Jewish people, how to approach that with the king, how to broach that topic. And it's absolutely fascinating that in between those two banquets, there's a night. One night passes and God reverses the whole story in the middle of the night, in the king's bedroom, while Esther and Mordecai, the two heroes of the story, if you will, are out of the picture. They are backstage. They're in their bedrooms. Esther disappears for two chapters. And she disappears at the absolute crux of the story, where everything turns, because the king has a sleepless night. And God begins to work all the reversals without Esther and Mordecai.

And that to me is the biggest encouragement, especially where I'm living right now, what I'm walking through right now, is that no matter how resourced we think we are, or how much we want to control things, or how much we want to affect things, God asks us to do our part and he does his part. And our part is just to be obedient, and his part is to accomplish his will.

And I love it -- it was Karen Jobes, who's a wonderful author and scholar -- and I don't have the quote in front of me. But she basically said the beauty of this story is that God moves the human heroes out of the way to accomplish his work. And it's to show that he gets the glory, that he did it. That while Esther and Mordechai are asleep, God moves in and changes everything. And that has been the biggest encouragement to me.

Jennifer Rothschild: Did you hear that? While we sleep, God moves. There was just that one night when all the human heroes disappeared and God did it without them. You know what that means? Rest. Just rest, our people. God's got this story. God's got the pen. You just be obedient and you be faithful. He is going to do the rest for his glory.

KC Wright: And all the people said?

Jennifer Rothschild: Amen.

KC Wright: She is one of my favorites.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

KC Wright: What great insight from this conversation today. And I know you feel the same. That means you need to go deeper with her book. You can do the Esther Bible study on your own or with a group. And we will have a link to purchase that on the Show Notes right now at 413podcast.com/337. And you can even win one right now. Yes. You can find a way to enter to win the book on the Show Notes or you can go straight to Jennifer's Instagram, which is @jennrothschild.

All right, this has been another great episode --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yep.

KC Wright: -- another great conversation --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yep.

KC Wright: -- another great guest.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yep.

KC Wright: We are so abundantly blessed, right?

Jennifer Rothschild: Mm-hmm.

KC Wright: Well, until next week, remember you can live a daring faith because you can do all things through Christ who gives you strength. I can.

Jennifer Rothschild: I can.

Jennifer and KC: And you can.

KC Wright: Hey, let me tell you something.

Jennifer Rothschild: What?

KC Wright: So I live about 30 minutes, as you know, from Sight & Sound Theatre.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you see Esther?

KC Wright: Well, that's where I'm going with this. Not only did I see Esther once, not only twice, but -- I don't know what the deal was, but last year I had so many friends come from out of state to vacation in Branson, where Sight & Sound Theatre is, and they said, "Hey, we got tickets for Esther." and I'm like, "Oh, I've already seen it three times." I mean, by, like, the fourth time, I wanted to stand up in the audience and just tell the main character, Sit down, I got it from here.

But truly, Sight & Sound Theatre, where the Bible comes to life, highly recommend it. I got more out of that musical production than I did learning about it at Bible school.

Jennifer Rothschild: I know, isn't that interesting? Just shows the power of the art.