4:13 Podcast: Can I Invite God to My Church? With Pastor Steve Gaines [Episode 339]

Dr. Steve Gaines: You don't have to have a revival across 55 churches; you can have revival in one person's heart. Like, you can have revival in your heart, I can have revival in my heart and just say, "God, let the glory of God fill me." And when you go around, you'll just be salt and light everywhere you go.

It's kind of like a boat. What does a boat leave behind it? A wake. And I believe that everywhere we go, we're to leave a Holy Spirit wake. And what is that like? The fruit of the Spirit. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. When you or I or any spirit-filled Christian goes into a room, when we leave that room, it ought to smell like the Holy Spirit, like Jesus.

Jennifer Rothschild: Why don't churches today look like the church in the Book of Acts? And could they? They can if we invite God to our church. Simply put, when God comes to church, revival results.

Today on The 4:13, Pastor Steve Gaines is going to analyze how churches can look just like the church of the First Century. You are going to find out that we don't need another program, another personality, or a great marketing plan to set our churches on fire. We need God's presence. This is going to be inspiring and practical, so ready, set, here we go.

KC Wright: Welcome to the 4:13 Podcast, where practical encouragement and biblical wisdom set you up to live the "I Can" life, because you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.

Now, welcome your host, Jennifer Rothschild.

Jennifer Rothschild: Hello, our friends. Jennifer here to help you be and do more than you feel capable of as you're living that "I Can" life of Philippians 4:13. I'm sitting next to my buddy --

KC Wright: Hi, hi.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- my Seeing Eye Guy, KC Wright.

KC Wright: Here we are.

Jennifer Rothschild: It's two friends, one topic --

KC Wright: And zero stress.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's exactly right, zero stress.

Listen, y'all, this is going to be a good conversation. If you're in ministry, you just need to call your people and you need to let them know they need to hear this.

KC Wright: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: But if you go to church, you need to hear this. My little grandson, I think he needs to hear this.

KC Wright: Okay.

Jennifer Rothschild: Church matters. Hearing the Word of God matters. We all need the Word of God, even when we are three years old.

So let me tell you what happened. All right. So our precious little Lawson -- we've got these four grandkids. They're all under the age of seven. And this was when Lawson was three. It is my favorite story at this point about him. So he has got this tender little heart. He's sweet. He's smart. Oh, my gosh, he's so smart. So those little boys love Legos. They love to build things. And so evidently Lawson was at preschool, which happens to be at our church, and he comes home with something in his pocket from preschool, and his mama finds it. And it happens to be a Lego block.

And so when Caroline, the most amazing daughter-in-law in the world, finds it in his pocket, she says, "Lawson, tell me about this block. Where'd you get it?" "I got it at school." "Well, Lawson, you can't take things from school that don't belong to you." "But I need it for my Wagos." "But, Lawson, when we take things that don't belong to us, that is called stealing." And Lawson pauses. And then he said very profoundly, "But, Mommy, I only steal cool things." And I'm like, that right there, that's why we need God to come to our church. That's why we need the Word of God.

But I was like, you know what? I'm so proud of us. We are raising very intelligent little sinners in our home. He only steals cool things. I'm like, "You go, Lawson." Isn't that adorable?

KC Wright: Oh, that's so cute.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, I just got to say, he is so cute. So I don't think he steals cute things anymore -- cool things. I don't think he steals anything anymore, at least right now that we're aware of. Maybe he's just become more secretive. But anyway, I just love it. It's just a cute little story, but I think it illustrates why we need God in our lives and in our churches.

So, y'all, this is a really good conversation with Pastor Steve Gaines, so -- oh, let me tell you this, though, before KC -- before you introduce him. You will detect early on in the conversation that Pastor's trying to clear his throat a lot. He is going through, or was when we were talking, going through cancer treatments, and it affected his voice. So I just wanted you to be aware of what you're hearing and why, and also remind you that we can pray for him as we listen to him today.

KC Wright: Dr. Steve Gaines is the senior pastor at Bellevue Baptist Church. He's known as a man of prayer and a preacher of God's Word. Steve has pastored churches in Texas, Tennessee, Alabama --

Jennifer Rothschild: He's been everywhere.

KC Wright: -- and he's served in many leadership roles, including President of the Southern Baptist Convention. He's married to Donna, and they have four children and 18 grandchildren. Look what they started.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right?

KC Wright: How does he have time to write books?

Jennifer Rothschild: I know, right? And I'm sure none of them steal from preschool.

KC Wright: All right, here's Jennifer and Pastor Steve.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right, Steve, most of us who are listening have been in the church for many years, we are believers in Christ, so that means many of us have read the Book of Acts. Yet, when we're reading the Book of Acts and then we look at our current churches, sometimes it's hard to see the current today church in the Book of Acts. So what's your opinion about that? Are we still like the Church of Acts, or have we moved away from that church model?

Dr. Steve Gaines: I think -- it's been my experience over the last four or five decades that we are not as close to the Book of Acts as we need to be. And I believe that one of the reasons is because so many pastors and staff members and volunteer leaders are looking at other churches to emulate rather than the Book of Acts. And to me, what you're doing there is you're copying a copy instead of copying the original. And anytime you copy a copy, it's not as good as the original, you know. And the Book of Acts is what the church is supposed to be like.

Now, they didn't have any buildings -- and I don't think there's anything wrong with having a building. But we all know that if we will be forthright, a building is not a church.

Jennifer Rothschild: No.

Dr. Steve Gaines: People redeemed humanity, that's what a church is.

And so I believe that we ought to really focus on the Book of Acts. And I think if you just read a chapter a day, you can easily read it through in a month. And just apply what they're doing and see what they don't focus on and see what they do focus on, I think we'd be a lot better.

I know I've been a pastor for 40-plus years, 44 years, whatever. I've been preaching for a long time, and I just believe with all of my heart that God wants us to be like the Book of Acts.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. So for those who have read the Book of Acts, their -- you know, their mind's flipping real quickly through, okay, so what were they like there? And it's really more about a behavior than an institution.

Dr. Steve Gaines: Right.

Jennifer Rothschild: So just give us kind of a picture of how did those early believers, the first church, how did they relate to each other?

Dr. Steve Gaines: Well, you know, I think the number one thing, when I see the Book of Acts, is they spent time with the Lord in prayer. And I think that we -- I don't know many conservative Bible-believing Christians that would not say that they don't believe in prayer, but I know a lot of conservative Bible-believing Christians that don't pray.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right, right, right.

Dr. Steve Gaines: And I'm not trying to be judgmental.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. No, I struggle with it. I mean, I think a lot of us do.

Dr. Steve Gaines: Yeah. Well, if you love somebody, you talk with them. If you don't talk with them, you don't love them the way that you think you do. And I think that God wants us to talk with him. I believe God talks to us primarily through Scripture, and then any Holy Spirit prompting he gives us will be in accordance with Scripture. In other words, he's not going to tell you -- God's not going to tell you to do something that is not friendly with Scripture.

I do believe God speaks. I read my Bible this morning. I read a chronological Bible. I read two different entries, not because I'm behind, but because I'm ahead. And I spent time in the Word and God talked to me. I mean, I think God's a talker. And he communicates -- his primary way of communicating was through his son, Jesus Christ. But then he also speaks to us through Scripture and then the inner promptings of the Holy Spirit.

Like, if you are out at a restaurant -- let me just give you one anecdotal illustration of God speaking to you. If you're out at a restaurant and you all of a sudden have this desire to buy somebody's lunch and to do it anonymously, guess what? That's not you. That's the Holy Spirit of God. And God does those kind of things all the time. If you have just a desire to witness to somebody that you've never met in your life, you're on an airplane or whatever, that's not you. That's the Holy Spirit of God. And the good thing is whenever he's working on you, he's working on them, and he's doing something to impact their life with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

So I believe God's a talker. And I want to listen to him, I want to hear his voice. You know, the Bible says that he will speak to us and that we will hear his voice behind us saying, This is the way, walk in it. Now, listen, whenever you turn to the right or the left -- I believe God is very specific when he talks to us through the inner promptings of the Holy Spirit, through Scripture, through other people who love us that love the Lord. There's just several ways he can talk to us.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, and what you're describing too -- I mean, that does look like the early church. It really was the acts of the Holy Spirit within a group of people. So, Pastor, when you're talking like that, you're really speaking of the Holy Spirit having pre-eminence in our life in God's Word, in relationship with the Father. And that can lead to revival. Okay? So what you talk about in your book also is revival or -- and you also use the word spiritual awakening. Those words get tossed around. So I'd like to know how you define those terms.

Dr. Steve Gaines: I define revival using a direct quote out of the Old Testament that we use several times. But it's the glory of God filling the house of God. And I believe that's the greatest definition there is.

And by the way, I'm taking treatments for cancer, and that's why my voice is so raspy. So I hope this is not bothering you. It doesn't bother me a bit.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, it doesn't bother us.

Dr. Steve Gaines: I just wanted to say that.

But the glory of God filling the house of God. And, you know, you don't have to have a revival across 55 churches. You can have revival in one person's heart. Like, you can have revival in your heart. I can have revival in my heart and just say, "God, let the glory of God fill me," and when you go around, you'll just be salt and light everywhere you go. It's kind of like a boat. What does a boat leave behind it? A wake. And I believe that everywhere we go, we're going to leave a Holy Spirit wake. And what is that like? The fruit of the Spirit. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. When you or I or any Spirit-filled Christian goes into a room, when we leave that room, it ought to smell like the Holy Spirit, like Jesus. And everywhere we go, we're depositing Jesus with us.

If it's at a restaurant I'm about to go eat -- I love Latino food, and I'm about to go eat some good Mexican food. Well, I want to leave, though -- I want to leave that lady a great tip. I want to be nice to her as she's waiting on us. I want to ask her, "How can we pray for you?" Anywhere you go, you can leave behind Christ. You don't have to just knock on the door of somebody you don't know, hand them a Gospel track. That's one way to witness, and I do that. But there are other ways to witness too, by praying for people, being nice to people, being kind to people, being Christ-like everywhere you go.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, yeah.

Dr. Steve Gaines: So I'd (audio cuts out) that you leave that weight behind you. And at the end of your life, that's all you've got, is what did you to telling people about Christ?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Well, and your definition of revival is so simple, the glory of God filling the house of God. And we are his temple, so, yeah, what's in us comes out wherever we are. And so if that's a really simple and very profound definition of revival, then what are some common misconceptions of what it means for you to have an individual revival or your church to have a revival?

Dr. Steve Gaines: Well, some people don't really like to even talk about revival, because they focus over the years, let's just be honest -- not honest. We're not going to lie. But let's just be forthright. Be transparent. That's a good word. Some people have done some really crazy things and blamed it on God and blamed it on revival. You know, when you do something that's not biblical -- and I don't want to be very specific here because I don't want to -- you know, I'm not trying to pick on anybody. But if you're doing something and it's not in Scripture, guess what? It's not of God.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right, right.

Dr. Steve Gaines: And so, you know, you start falling out. I know there were some people that God prayed over and stuff like that, somebody prayed over, and I understand -- I get that. But when you start barking like a dog and doing things like that and blaming that on God, that's not God. That's not revival. That's just as fake as it can be.

But I believe revival can result in amazing miracles. I believe that people will be supernaturally healed in the wake of revival. I believe -- and I'm talking about instantly healed. I believe in doctors. I got a bunch of doctors in my church. But we pray that God will heal people through medicine, miracle, or both. And we've seen people -- every Sunday morning we anoint people with oil, like it says in James 5, and we pray for them to be healed. And we have had people instantaneously healed at the altar of a Baptist church because we would do what God said to do.

So I believe healing, I believe God can straighten out marriages that look like they're forever broken. God can reconcile people who have been at odds with one another. God can pull you out of some addiction, that you've been fighting all of your life, instantaneously. Sometimes it takes longer than that, and that's okay. If God wants to heal incrementally, that's okay with me, I don't care. But I just believe that we'd see a lot more miracles if we would pray in faith believing that God is still the answer to our prayers and he is willing to answer according to his will.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right. So, Pastor, when you described, you know, how your church prays and anoints with oil, I love that image. And it reminds me of how sometimes we just think of revival as, like, an institutional event. Oh, that church is in revival. Okay? So we've got a bunch of individuals listening to us, so talk to us about how that individual believer can actually play a role in ushering in revival in their community of faith in their church.

Dr. Steve Gaines: I'm very big on disciplines. And the word discipline, what's the root word of that? Disciple. And I think that disciples of Christ ought to be disciplined and they ought to practice the basic disciplines of growing in grace and becoming more like Christ.

Number one, read your Bible. And I'm not talking about reading one verse a day, a little bit will do ya. No. I'm talking about read the Bible through every year. Get on some kind of Bible reading plan where you can read it through every year. I mean, you've got a lot of days, 365 days, and there are 24 hours in every day. If you'll spend 15 minutes to 20 minutes a day -- that's 1/96th of your day -- reading the Bible, you can read it through every year.

And then I believe that you need to pray. You say, Well, I don't know how to pray. Well, sure you do. Just start talking with God. And if you don't know how to pray, get around a Christian that does know how to pray and just pray with them until you learn how to pray. That's how you learn how to pray. It's not complicated. You don't have to pray some pretty, you know, ornate prayer. Just talk to the Lord and pour out your heart before him. And there are so many ways you can do that. You can praise him according to the names of God: Jehovah Jireh, the Lord, my provider; Jehovah Nissi, the Lord, my protector that fights for me; Jehovah Rapha, the Lord, my healer.

There are so many ways to praise him. And then thank him for all the things he's done for you. And then start praying for your family and then start praying that God will put the whole armor of God on you, your wife, your children, your grandchildren, the people at your church, the people that you love. And just sit there and say, God, gird our loins with truth, shod our feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace, put on us the breastplate of righteousness, and go right down the line and let God clothe everyone you're praying for.

And then pray for lost people, that God will convict them of sin and righteousness and judgment. There are so many people to pray for. And quit bellyaching -- I'm not talking about you -- but quit bellyaching, folks out there, about all the leaders and everything and start praying for them.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's right.

Dr. Steve Gaines: Jesus wants us to pray for the people who are in public office. I don't care if you voted for him or not. I don't care if you're a Republican or a Democrat. You need to pray for everybody that is in a leadership role, whether they're the president or the congressman or the mayor or whatever. There are so many people to pray for, and I just -- I don't get it. I'm not trying to sound like I know it all, but I don't get it when people say, Well, I don't know -- when I pray, I just have -- you know, I pray about one or two minutes. Well, duh. You know, get you a list and start praying on it. The more you pray, the more you'll want to pray. It's just the way it is.

Jennifer Rothschild: It is. Well, and you see the power of it and --

Dr. Steve Gaines: Bingo.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- it becomes relational too.

Dr. Steve Gaines: Bingo.

Jennifer Rothschild: And that's what you were talking about. God's a talker, and we want to relate to him.

Dr. Steve Gaines: Amen. And he does -- I believe God is going to do some things whether we pray or not.

Jennifer Rothschild: Sure.

Dr. Steve Gaines: But I believe there are some things that God will only do if we pray. I wrote another book called "Pray Like It Matters." I believe it matters. I believe that the greatest thing you can do every day is to pray. Donna and I wake up, we read our Bibles -- that's my wife. We read our Bibles immediately. We're empty nesters. And it's just a great way -- we get up, read our Bible, and we pray. And we don't just do it a little dab; we do it a long time, and God's given us that time to do it. But you can do it even when you have kids at home. Just go to bed on time so you can get up on time so you can spend some time with God.

Don't get up and check your telephone, don't check all your emails and your texts. Don't look at your phone. Don't go horizontally until you go vertically. Connect with Jesus in the Word and in prayer and then check all this other stuff. But you'll be a different person if you'll do that.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. And then you're actually equipped to deal with the emails and the texts and all the things.

Dr. Steve Gaines: Amen.

Jennifer Rothschild: Otherwise you're going unguarded into the day. This is so good.

So one of the things, too, that I -- as we're talking about this, one question that comes to mind is -- so people are listening, and they're like, yeah, okay, so I just heard read the Word, pray, be in community, worship, all the things. Okay. But then it makes me think we probably need to clarify one thing -- because you talk about this in your book -- regeneration. So what does it mean, Steve, for someone to be regenerated? And tell me why this is necessary for believers.

Dr. Steve Gaines: Jesus said, "You must be born again." And that's what regeneration is. It is the initial entrance into the Christian life, and it is receiving Jesus as Lord and Savior. John 1:12, "As many as receive him, to them he gives the right to become children of God." I believe there are three things that have to happen for someone to be regenerated, born again, saved, whatever you want to call it, becoming a Christian. I don't think that baptism saves you, I don't believe that -- just because your parents were members of a church, I don't think that saves you.

Number one, you have to repent. Jesus said if you don't repent -- he said this twice in the Book of Luke. He said it -- I think it's Chapter 13. But he said, "If you don't repent, you'll perish." That means you'll go to hell. Jesus talked more about hell than anybody else in the New Testament. And I'm not just trying to avoid hell, but I will tell you this, I don't want to go there.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right, right.

Dr. Steve Gaines: I want to go to heaven. But not only that, I want Christ in my heart. So number one, I've got to repent. And Peter said -- not on the day of Pentecost, but -- he said it on Pentecost, but then he said it -- the best one was where he said, "Repent, therefore, and return, that your sins may be washed away" -- this is in Acts 3 -- "that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord." And you have to repent. Repent means to do a 180, an about-face, to say, Lord, I ask you to forgive me for my sins and I turn. I don't want to live like this anymore.

I can remember the time that I repented. It was February the 10th, 1976. I was a freshman in college, I was 18 years old, and I repented at a little Baptist church and I gave my heart to Christ. But you have to repent. You have to renounce the sin. It doesn't mean you'll never sin, but it means that you don't want to and you're sorry for your sins.

Number two, you have to believe. You have to believe that Jesus died on the cross for your sins and that he rose from the dead. I like to say you got to believe in the atoning blood of the cross and you got to believe in his empty tomb. And if you don't do that, you're not going to heaven. You've got to ask God to forgive you and you've also got to believe that he died on the cross for you and rose from the dead. So number one, you've got to repent. Number two, you got to believe.

And number three, there's got to be a moment in time where you receive Christ. And Paul said whosoever shall what? Call upon the name of the Lord. You've got to pray and invite Christ to come into your life and to be saved. And if you don't do those things, you are not a Christian. You're not a Christian because you were sprinkled as a baby. You're not a Christian because you were confirmed. You're not a Christian because you joined the church or you were baptized or somebody said you're a member of the church. They can't make you a member of the true church. You've got to repent, you've got to believe, and you've got to receive. And those are the things you have to do to become a child of God, to be regenerated, to be born again.

Jennifer Rothschild: Preach. And so if you're listening and -- you know, that might be making you feel a little uncomfortable. Well, maybe just press into that discomfort. That is most likely the Holy Spirit, who we've already talked about, who's reminding you, who's saying to you, hey, you've been to church, but you haven't been to the cross. So listen to Pastor Gaines. And if you have a brother or sister, if you have a family member, if you have a friend who you know is a Christian, talk to them about this. But as Pastor Gaines just said, you call on the name of the Lord and you will be saved.

Dr. Steve Gaines: Amen.

Jennifer Rothschild: You repent, you believe, and you just call on him. Thank you, Lord, that he saves all of us and he's not willing that any of us should spend eternity without him. Thank you, Lord.

All right, Pastor, we're going to get to our last question. So we've talked a little bit about revival, the power of the Holy Spirit in our individual lives and how that can impact our churches. We want to look more like the churches in the Book of Acts. So what can we do, when this podcast ends, as individuals, and then let's even talk corporately, what can we do as churches to cultivate an environment where the Holy Spirit moves freely within our midst?

Dr. Steve Gaines: I think the number one thing we can do is to be steadfast in our time with the Lord every day reading the Bible and praying.

The second thing I would do for the church -- and this is the main thing I would do for the church. If I was a church member, I would go to the pastor and just say, Pastor, I just want you to know that I thank God for you. Number one, pastors -- the devil constantly discourages pastors. I've been a pastor for a long time. The senior pastor for 41 years. I've been working on a staff of a church for 45 years. But it's a very discouraging, lonely position. And if you'll just go to your pastor and say, Pastor, I don't want anything from you, I just want you to know I'm going to pray for you. And if you ever have anything that you specifically want me to pray for, let me know. Maybe you can text him and give him your cell number. And, you know, that will encourage him so much. I think that that's one of the greatest things you can do, is to pray for your pastor.

And then I think if you will just practice the spiritual disciplines that we've talked about, reading the Bible, praying, but also sharing the Gospel with lost people, Every time you have a desire to share the Gospel, it's not from you, it's the Holy Spirit of God. Because we're too selfish and we're too afraid. But the Spirit of God is not afraid, and he's sure not selfish. He's Christ-focused. And he wants to put the glory and the light on Jesus.

So pray, do whatever the Holy Spirit tells you to do, and walk in obedience, instant obedience, complete obedience, whatever the -- if the Lord tells you to give somebody some money, and do it anonymously, do it. If he tells you to pray for somebody, do it. If he tells you to be encouraging to somebody, to text somebody, do it. And I'm telling you, if you'll start listening to the Lord, he will wear you out in a loving way about him, using you for his glory. And it's so refreshing. It's so fun. It's like living, as we started out, in the Book of Acts. They were just listening, saying, God, here I am. Speak to me. Use me for your glory, and he will.

KC Wright: Put simply, if you want revival in your life and in your church, whatever God says, just do it.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. That's pretty much the summary. Do it. Be in the Word every day.

And by the way, if you've been a listener for a while, you know how much I love the Bible app called Dwell. That's a great way to be in the Word every day. It has a beautiful read the Bible in a year option. And you can try it for free through 413podcast.com/Dwell. But, of course, we're going to have that also linked for you on the Show Notes.

KC Wright: And I really appreciated how he reminded us, ever so gently and tenderly there, to love and support the pastor in your life. Tell him, Hey, you know, I thank God for you. Because they are real people with real bills and real family problems and real issues. Okay? So they need encouragement. They're human beings as well. So encourage your pastor. Tell him, Hey, I pray for you, I'm here for you. Practice spiritual disciplines, share the Good News.

We're giving away one of Steve's books. Hey, how cool is that? You can win one. Go to Jennifer's Insta @jennrothschild. And you can also go to the Show Notes now to enter to win and get a book and learn more about Steve. Plus, you can read a transcript, as always, right there on the Show Notes. The Show Notes are at 413podcast.com/339.

All right, our people. I don't know. It's kind of like when you get to the bottom of a good coffee cup.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, you just don't want to finish.

KC Wright: I know. It's like, aah, I got one sip left. Well, now we're at the end of our podcast. Until next week, we love you. And this is a wrap, but you can invite God to your church this Sunday. You can ask the glory of God to fill the house of God, because you can do all things through Christ who gives you supernatural strength. I know I can.

Jennifer Rothschild: I can.

Jennifer and KC: And you can.

Jennifer Rothschild: I love that definition of revival, when the glory of God fills the house of God. And you know what? We are the temple. We are the house of God. I want your glory, Lord, to fill this house right now. Amen.

KC Wright: Amen.