4:13 Podcast: Can I Get a Fresh Perspective on the Bible? With Kristi McLelland [Episode 315]

Kristi McClelland: Often as Westerners, we grow up being taught to read the Bible and to ask the question, What does this teach me about me? We immediately sort of go to that application, What am I supposed to do? And one of the things I learned while studying in Israel is for the Jewish people, as they're reading the Bible, their first question is always, What does this teach me about who the Living God is? What he's like, what it's going to mean to follow him.

And I often joke with people, you know, if you stare at yourself for too long, you'll get depressed. But if you stare at the Living God, it will transform your life.

Jennifer Rothschild: We often approach the Bible like it's an instruction manual, you know, as if it were just, like, a simple set of tips for living our best life ever. But how differently would we study the Bible if we actually approached it not to learn something, but instead to encounter someone?

Well, today's guest, author, professor, and biblical culturalist, Kristi McClelland, is going to show you how to read Scripture through the Middle Eastern lens in which the Bible was actually originally written. And the result, my people, it is going to be that you will encounter the Living God in a way that you may not have ever experienced before. The Bible is about to go from black and white to vivid color. So on your mark, get set, let's go.

K.C. Wright: Welcome, welcome to the 4:13 Podcast, where practical encouragement and biblical wisdom set you and I up to live the "I Can" life, because you can truly -- I mean it -- do all things through Christ who strengthens you.

Now, welcome your host, Jennifer Rothschild.

Jennifer Rothschild: Hey, friends. That was K.C. Wright, my Seeing Eye Guy. And it's two friends and one topic and zero stress in the podcast closet, as you well know. And I'm Jennifer, if we're new friends. And my goal is just to help you be and do more than you feel capable of as you're living the "I Can" life.

And I will tell you this. It's in the season for me where allergies kick in. I don't know if that happens to you, K.C., but I have all morning been clearing my throat. And before we turned on the recording, I blew my nose really loud in the little closet. But when I did, I thought, oh my gosh, I've got to show you, K.C., and I've got to tell my people. Okay, the only good thing about having allergies is these new Kleenexes I found. Or tissues.

K.C. Wright: Oh, goodness.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, I didn't use this one, K.C.

K.C. Wright: Okay.

Jennifer Rothschild: But I want you to put it on your -- smell it.

K.C. Wright: You want me to smell your Kleenex?

Jennifer Rothschild: It's clean. I just pulled it out of the box.

K.C. Wright: Oh, my goodness.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right?

K.C. Wright: Is there -- it's like --

Jennifer Rothschild: Vicks?

K.C. Wright: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

K.C. Wright: It smelled like one of those oils you have around here.

Jennifer Rothschild: It does. Because it's like a tea tree eucalyptus. It's a Vicks -- you remember the brand Vicks?

K.C. Wright: Right.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. They have these tissues that kind of have a little bit of that Vicks on it.

K.C. Wright: Now, that's taken a Kleenex to the next level.

Jennifer Rothschild: I know. So you, like, breathe it in, it clears your sinuses, then you blow your nose.

Okay. But then -- like, I'm on a Vicks stage right now.

K.C. Wright: But wait, there's more.

Jennifer Rothschild: Now, this I won't share with you --

K.C. Wright: No.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- because I stick it up my nose.

K.C. Wright: Yeah, my grandpa used to have those.

Jennifer Rothschild: You've seen these?

K.C. Wright: Uh-huh.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. Well, I must be new kid on the block. I had never seen them.

K.C. Wright: Yep, yep.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, y'all, I wish you could smell this.

K.C. Wright: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: They call it an inhaler, and it's like, you know, the size of your nostril. And you just put it at the edge of your nostril and you breathe in and, oh, my gosh, it clears your sinuses. And it's such a happy feeling. So I am, like, on a Vicks, like, bandwagon right now. I'm loving this stuff.

K.C. Wright: It's all the little things.

Jennifer Rothschild: It is the little things, y'all.

K.C. Wright: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: So pardon me if I keep clearing my throat and sniffling. But you probably are dealing with the same thing. The only thing is, when I have this, I sound like a grownup because my voice gets a little deeper. Anyway...

I will have -- literally, I will have links to the Show Notes --

K.C. Wright: Okay.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- links on the Show Notes to my Vicks products that I am, like, in love with. Or maybe addicted to. Who knows? It doesn't matter. Don't judge.

All right, we're gonna talk with my buddy Kristi McClelland now. And you've heard her on other episodes, which I'll tell you about after we hear from Kristi. But, K.C., would you introduce Kristi.

K.C. Wright: Kristi McClelland is a professor at Williamson College and best-selling author who teaches the Bible in its historical, cultural, geographic contexts. After studying in Egypt and Israel in 2007, Kristi began leading biblical study trips to Israel. I want to go. Kristi's trips, as well as her in-person online courses and resources are incredible, and they include her popular Pearls Podcast. So this gal, I'm telling you, she loves Jesus --

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, she does.

K.C. Wright: -- and she is just bringing us all along for the ride.

Jennifer Rothschild: Let's go to Israel with Kristi.

K.C. Wright: Seriously. I mean, this is so good. This podcast is going to be so good. So here's Kristi and Jennifer.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right, Kristi. I already said, when me and K.C. were talking, how much I love you. You are one of my favorite people. And I think once our friends hear you, if they have not yet already, you're going to be one of their favorite people also. So let's get it moving, Kristi McClelland -- or shall I say Professor McClelland.

All right. Most of us who are listening right now -- we're in America, most of us. Okay? And that means most likely we have the tendency to read the Bible through our American lens. Okay? Because it's what we know. It's that Western cultural lens. But no matter where someone is listening right now, what they know best is, you know, what they know best, their own culture. So that means all of us see most things, including Scripture, through our own cultural lens. All right? So with that disclaimer, let's start right there. All right? Let's start with our own perspectives, our own cultural lenses. Why is it important that we read and understand the Bible in the Bible's original context and culture?

Kristi McClelland: Well, first of all, I just want to say I love you. I'm starting my day with you.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's the best.

Kristi McClelland: And I'm a morning person, so you're getting me at my absolute best time of the day. I wish we were together in person right now. But, man, it's such a great question. And something that I'm always telling my students at the college is all language only makes sense in context. Words make sense in context. And, you know, there are some adventures in life that we choose to go on, and honestly, Jennifer, there are great adventures in this life that find us. And an adventure found me back in 2007 when the Lord opened up the door for me to go study the Bible in Egypt and Israel.

I already had a seminary degree under my belt, many, many years of biblical teaching. I went to study abroad in the spirit of professional development. I was on staff at a church teaching Bible, I was already at the college teaching Bible, and I felt like it would be an enhancement to go to Israel and to experience the Bible in its world, in its native habitat, in its geography, in its culture, in its history, in its language.

And so I think often now how the Lord was laughing, because I thought I was going on a professional development trip and it ended up absolutely changing my life. I came home from my time studying abroad and I've been taking teams to Israel multiple times a year on biblical study trips ever since. And what I learned is that fundamental to my calling -- people call me a Bible teacher, a professor, an author. But really, if you ask me what am I as a follower of Jesus in this world, I'm called to be a bridge between the Western church and the worlds and lands of the Bible, teaching the Bible in its historical, cultural, geographic, and linguistic context.

And so I often liken it -- when we learn to take off our Western lenses and put on our Middle Eastern or Near Eastern lenses, it's sort of like when you go to the eye doctor and he puts the thing in front of you and he's clicking it and he's asking you, Is it clear? Is it clear? Is it clear? And he's clicking. And with that clarity, that's what learning the Bible in that context has done for me. It's just been a significant enhancement. And I'm always quick to say, it's not that our Western way is wrong. This isn't a wrong right; it's not a bad good. It's just who doesn't want to understand the Bible better.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Kristi McClelland: And that's the invitation in it. And that was the gift that it gave me back in 2007, and it's become the gift that I feel like I'm supposed to be a harbinger of in the world.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, you are. And it is the gift that thankfully keeps on giving. And you think about it, Kristi, if God's Word is God's words -- and any significant relationship we have, we want to know that person. We want to know where they grew up and how --

Kristi McClelland: That's right.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- you know, their whole life. It helps us understand their words better when we know their context. Okay. So with that in mind, I'm curious then -- because I appreciate you saying it's not necessarily wrong right. I appreciate that, because sometimes I do think, oh, I'm getting it all wrong. But there is a best and better. So what are some of the stumbling blocks that trip us up when we approach reading the Bible through our default lens instead of within its cultural or historical context?

Kristi McClelland: You know, when I hear -- I don't know about a stumbling block, but I'll answer your question in this way. I feel like often as Westerners, we grow up being taught to read the Bible and to ask the question, What does this teach me about me? We immediately sort of go to that application, What am I supposed to do? And one of the things I learned while studying in Israel is for the Jewish people as they're reading the Bible, their first question is always, What does this teach me about who the Living God is? What he's like, what it's going to mean to follow him.

And I often joke with people, you know, if you stare at yourself for too long, you'll get depressed. But if you stare at the Living God, it will transform your life. It will anchor you in a hopeful, buoyant, flourishing expectation of shalom, of the Kingdom of God coming down to the ground. Heaven is coming to earth, and we're being invited to be a part of that great story. The Bible is one story best read from beginning to end. And it's not a story far from us, it's actually a story that we are in it. The Living God gave us the best and truest story ever told, and it is a story that we are in as the New Testament church.

And so for me, one of the things that has transformed my faith is changing out that initial question. Anytime I'm reading the Bible -- I tell my students all the time, the point of every story in the Bible is God. He's the point. And when we begin with that framework -- you know, we never simply read the Bible; we interact with it. It's living and active, and so are we. So whether you've ever thought about it this way, you have a relationship with your Bible. And every time we open it up, it is life with life. It's like God as our father has given us as his children the best and greatest story ever told, and he's with us as we're experiencing it, as we are interacting with it.

And I love that idea, because sometimes when we get intimidated by the Bible -- I always tell people the Bible is not meant to intimidate us. The Living God is not trying to give us something perplexing. He's showing us the truth, the most truthful story, and how we can orient and locate ourselves within it, what it's going to mean to walk with him in this life, to partner with him, and seeing the Kingdom of God come down to the ground, for heaven to come to earth, and to see him -- to be a part of that great restoration. And I just tell people all the time, when we read the Bible and lead out with the question, What does this teach me about who the Living God is? What does this teach me about who Jesus is? What does this teach me about the who the Holy Spirit is? That causes us to lift up, to sort of have this buoyant expansiveness of man. The Living God is here. And you want to know what? He is keeping his word. What Jesus said in Revelation 21, I think it's verse 7, or somewhere right in there, when he said, "Behold, I am making everything new," right now he's making everything new. You and I woke up into a world. While we slept last night, the Living God was working, making all things new. He who watches over Israel neither slumbers nor sleeps.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, girl, I wish I were in your class right now.

Kristi McClelland: Oh, my gosh.

Jennifer Rothschild: If this is what it's like when you're teaching -- I mean, I've sat under your teaching. But listen, that just lifted my spirit.

Kristi McClelland: This is what the Bible is meant -- like, when I hear people say the Bible is boring, I'm like, I honestly don't understand. We're being invited into the greatest adventure of shalom that the world has ever known or will ever see. And so that's why we read it. We don't read the Bible every day to be a discipline, we don't read the Bible every day for some practice or something like that. No, we read the Bible every day because it is reminding us of this deep and profound forever restoration that is underway. And it's coming in your life, it's coming in my life. And as we receive it, we become the agency of the Kingdom of God in the world so that everybody understands that the Living God has a table and a banquet's on the way and they're invited to it.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, my friends, see, this -- my 4:13ers, this is why I told you you were going to love Kristi. This is why I love Kristi.

All right, girl. So -- okay. So you mentioned something that I want to circle back to. Well, there's two things. But first one. The Bible is not meant to be intimidating, you said. Agree. Totally agree. Yet, that is the experience that some people have, which I understand. And part of it is because there's some vernacular that might be unfamiliar to us. Okay? So, for example, the Bible uses idioms. And it also refers to customs that were very, like, normal and familiar to the original writers and the listeners. Okay? But we might, like, totally get freaked out or miss them or misunderstand if we're looking at the Bible through our own lens rather than the cultural lens. So can you give us a picture of, like, how this messes up our understanding of Scripture. Maybe even give us a couple of examples of that.

Kristi McClelland: So, you know, if language matters in context -- you know, I love to tell the story -- years and years and years ago I was on staff at the Parachurch Missions Organization and I had the chance to spend some time in India. And I was walking down the street in India, in a major city -- I mean, hundreds of thousands of people, very much metropolitan -- and I was eating a banana. It was in the morning, we were headed somewhere. And out of nowhere, a monkey came out and grabbed my banana and ran away. And I stood there on that sidewalk, in that major city in India, and I just started laughing because that has never happened to me anywhere in the United States. It's a foreign experience for me. But when you spend time in India and you understand that certain religions in India see animals in a different kind of a way, all of a sudden seeing animals in major metropolitan cities out loose on the streets, it made more sense in its context.

And so when we're reading the Bible -- you know, you're talking about a people that lived very long ago, in another part of the world, that spoke a different language, that lived as a part of a different culture than our own. I'm often saying as Westerners, we are very much Greco-Roman in our orientation. We are more like Athens and Rome than we are Jerusalem. And so it's just this beautiful enhancement -- again, it's not a right or wrong -- but to learn Jewish idioms and metaphors and things like that.

And one of the things that I really learned -- and this blessed me, Jennifer, because -- like, if I were to ask all of you out there, "Where is God?" what's the first thing that just came to your mind? A lot of times when I ask people that, and I'm in their presence, they look up. Right?

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, interesting. Right.

Kristi McClelland: So God is up there. So we think of him first in his transcendence. And, yes, the Prophet Isaiah talks about the Living God sits enthroned above the heavens and the earth, right? The heavens are his footstool. And so what I learned studying in Israel is that -- I didn't lose the transcendence, but it brought the immanence of the Living God. Yes, he's up there and out there, but he's also right here and very near. And so much of what we read about in the Bible that to us it reads as metaphor, it's theology anchored in the geography of the land. You know, when the psalms talk about the Lord is my shade at my right hand, let me tell you something. I've been in the Wilderness of Zin when it was 100-plus degrees. You would give anything for some shade at your right hand.

And so you think about these visions and pictures of heaven that we find in the Old Testament. We hear it in Micah's voice, we hear it in Isaiah's voice. What will heaven be like? It will be like each one sitting under his own vine and fig tree, and no one will make them afraid. And when you are in Israel, guess what you see a bunch of? Terraced vineyards, fig trees, vines. And from time to time, seeing people during harvest shading under them. And so you start to realize, wait a minute, the Living God does sit encircled above the heavens and the earth. But the language of the Bible, given to us by these people, the Jewish people in the Middle East, it's very much the immanence. It's the right here. So what's changed for me since studying in Israel is if you ask me, "Where is God?" my first impulse is that he's right here. And then I think about his transcendence. It almost flipped for me.

Jennifer Rothschild: Wow.

Kristi McClelland: But what's so encouraging, Jennifer, is we serve a God who is out there and right here. And he's out there and he's right here making everything new, and he's coming for everybody. He's coming for everybody everywhere. There is no inch of the earth where he is not to be found. There is no inch of the earth. You look at Jesus' ministry -- and that was something else that was just so transformative for me about being in Israel, is I am eating foods that Jesus would have eaten. I am sitting on the shore of the Sea of Galilee, something he did himself numerous times. I'm looking up and seeing stars in the sky that he knew during his earthly life and ministry. And so it was like going home with him. I got to know Jesus in his first century Jewish world, and that's really what it felt like.

And then you read the Gospels, Jesus in context in that first century Jewish life and world, and you see the Pharisees are constantly getting upset with him. Why? Because he's eating with tax collectors and sinners. He who is clean is eating with the unclean, and the religious leaders can't handle it. And Jesus is laughing. I truly -- I mean, I wasn't there, so I don't know, but I envision him laughing and saying, You think it's bad that I'm eating with tax collectors and sinners? It is so much worse than that. I am going out looking for them, searching for them. The Son of Man has come to seek and to save the lost.

And in that first century Jewish culture, table fellowship was everything. It was one of the highest public affiliations. Who you ate with, you welcomed, embraced, and accepted. So again, if we're leading out with that first question, not what does it teach me about me, but what does this teach me about who the Living God is, who Jesus is, Jesus is the one who will eat with you. And before you get your life together, he will invite you to the table, tax collector and sinner. Oh, now you're talking about me. He's talking about all of us. Because Jesus understands that salvation and transformation happen in proximity to him. Who was a sage and rabbi of the Galilee, and Messiah of the world, in a system of Judaism that was all about clean and unclean. Clean is constantly trying to not touch something unclean because it would make clean unclean. Jesus comes on the scene, inaugurates the Kingdom of God, and he reverses that. With Jesus, when unclean touches his clean, the unclean becomes clean.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

Kristi McClelland: And this is core to understanding the mission of the Kingdom of God. You and I as followers of Jesus, we are here to host the world, to be heralds and ambassadors and harbingers with an invitation that a great banquet is coming, a forever Sabbath is coming, a new city, a New Jerusalem, a new heaven, a new earth so secure, Revelation talks about her gates will not even be shut at night because there will be no one to make them afraid.

Jennifer Rothschild: Isn't that interesting, Kristi, that symbolism, the vine and the fig tree --

Kristi McClelland: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- they sit under it; they are not afraid. The gates, not afraid. I mean, it just shows that God is making all things new. So even today, even today, the Lord our God is a shield about us. We can live without fear.

Girl, this is so good. Okay, so let me go to something you say in Chapter 6. You say that we are meant -- and I love this. Okay, everybody, tune in. You are meant to live like rivers, not lakes. We are meant to live like rivers, not lakes. So explain what you mean by that, Kristi.

Kristi McClelland: So, again, I'm just taking imagery from the Holy Land. So when you're in Israel, you have the Sea of Galilee, and the Jordan River actually flows into it, and then it flows out of it down into the Dead Sea. And the Dead Sea is called the Dead Sea because it's dead. The ancient historian Josephus called it Lake Asphaltitus. And you're completely buoyant in it, but it is not living water.

And so you find this language in Jewish literature that living water is better than dead water. Living water is water that moves: river water, stream water. Dead water is water like cistern water, it just sits there. And we all know what happens to water when it just sits there. What does it do?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Ugh.

Kristi McClelland: Yeah. It's gross. So who would rather drink living water from a fresh spring than water out of a cistern that's been sitting there forever? And so again we're using imagery from the world of the Bible that as followers of Jesus, we want to be like living water in this world. The Kingdom of God is on the move. It is not sedentary. It does not sit and rot like a cistern full of water. No. It's on the move, it's going out. And so we are being invited to be a people on the move, flowing, flourishing, wholeness, delight, shalom, the Kingdom coming, the Kingdom moving.

And so the things that we're learning, it's meant to pass through us like a river and on to others. We don't want to just sit on our couches as the people of God and not sin, we want to be on the move bringing the Kingdom of God to the earth.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Kristi McClelland: And so it's that difference in a sedentary faith and a flourishing faith, in a still faith and an active faith. And I don't know about you. I want living water. I want clean, moving, crisp water, not cistern water that I have to boil seven times to make it drinkable.

And so, you know, I often ask my students -- it's funny the language that we use around spiritual things here in the West, but I use that language with them often. I'll check in with them. And they know this language, and it's, Do you feel like you're living like a river or do you feel like you're sitting like a lake right now? Do you feel like a cistern right now or do you feel like the Jordan River flowing? And it's funny because they know the language. So sometimes they'll be like, Man, I'm feeling like a cistern today, you know, just like, Pray for me. And then sometimes there's this excitement, Man, I feel like I'm moving, I'm flowing. God is, like, moving in my life, I can see it.

And so again, you know, to be a follower of Jesus in Jesus' world 2,000 years ago, to follow a rabbi, you don't just want to know what he knows, you want to be just like him. You want to be an icon of him in this world. You want to sound like him, you want to taste like him, you want to feel like him, you want to be like him in the world. And I believe that that is Christian discipleship. We are not just following Jesus to know about him, we are following Jesus so that by the transformative power of the Holy Spirit in our lives, as we are informed by the Word of God, we are becoming more and more like him in his likeness, making him known in the world and inviting everyone to the forever Sabbath banquet.

Jennifer Rothschild: So beautiful, Kristi. Because when you think about it, you know, rivers, they carry things. They carry things along with the current. They cleanse things. And that is like our Savior.

Now, I want to get technical real quick here. Because something important that you talk about in your book is the intertestamental period. Okay?

Kristi McClelland: Oh, yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: And some people may be like, well, what in the world is that? So tell us what in the world that is and why it matters to understanding Scripture.

Kristi McClelland: Jennifer, I love you for this question. So what I always talk about is in our Bibles, we have a little white page between Malachi, which is the last book of the Old Testament for us as Protestants, and the beginning of Matthew, the beginning of the New Testament. And so sometimes when we see that little white page between Malachi and Matthew, we kind of think that nothing happened. Well, let me tell you something. That little white page between Malachi and Matthew, it covered approximately 400 years, and it's known as the intertestamental period, or the period between the testaments, between the Old and the New Testament.

And the entire world changed during the intertestamental period. The Greeks and Alexander the Great come on the stage, it's the beginning of the Pharisees. It's the beginning of so much. The story of Hanukkah happens during the intertestamental period. And so it's filled with the people of God continuing in their journey of walking with God faithfully.

And sometimes scholars have called the intertestamental period, that 400 years, the silent years. And it's been called that because there was no writing prophet of Israel during that time after Malachi. But I don't really like that phrase, because the Living God did not go on a vacation for 400 years. Again, He who watches over Israel neither slumbers nor sleeps. Psalm 121.

And so what I like to think of, and the way I teach it to my students, is the intertestamental period was when God was getting the nursery ready for baby Jesus. You know, for those of you out there, when you find out that you're pregnant, what do you start doing?

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, yeah.

Kristi McClelland: You start nesting, you start preparing the nursery, picking out colors, getting a crib, getting a baby seat, all the stuff you're preparing.

And I really look at human history and what was going on during that 400 years, and it seems like the Living God was getting that nursery ready because his son was getting ready to incarnate. The Living God was getting ready to take on flesh and come down himself, first as a helpless babe, later as a rabbi of Israel, and ultimately as the Messiah and Savior of the world.

And so the intertestamental period, it is fascinating. Now, I'm a history nerd, so I'm going to admit that. So for those of you out there that don't love history, I love you and I'm going to pray for you, because history is amazing. And the intertestamental history is amazing, and it really even helps to bridge for us, Jennifer, the Old Testament with the New Testament. Because, man, I just can't say it enough, the Bible is one story. It is best understood from beginning to end. Nobody buys a novel and takes it to the beach and begins on page 121 --

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Kristi McClelland: -- and then goes back to page 67 and reads a paragraph.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Kristi McClelland: You see what I'm saying? The Bible is the best and truest story ever told, and so getting a sense of the intertestamental period really helps us with the continuity of the narrative. It's not like there was an Old Testament -- okay, that's over -- and then some New Testament began, some brand-new story began. No. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, all the way to the end of Revelation 22 with the New Jerusalem, the new heaven, and the new earth, so safe that her gates are not even shut at night.

Jennifer Rothschild: Kristi, one of the things I've been doing -- well, I did -- was read the Bible in 90 days. Okay? Because I have had that -- and which was a discipline, of course, at first. At first. That's the point. It's not been hard to continue to do this because it's so interesting and it's so beautiful and I am seeing God in ways I haven't seen before just in the intensity of the read. Because I'm a voracious reader and fiction reader, and, dude, I can listen to an eight-hour book in two days, because I'm listening to it while I'm doing dishes or whatever. And I thought, well, why have I not done that with Scripture? And it has come to life for me in a different way.

So what I am saying is an affirmation to it is one story, and between Malachi and Matthew it's a continuation of the story. It's not, as you said, a break in the narrative. It is a continuation, and we are ready -- I've been ready every time I get to Matthew, like, yes, come, Lord Jesus. And by the time I get to Revelation, I'm ready again. Yes, come, Lord Jesus. And even now in this conversation, oh, come, Lord Jesus, come for your people.

Okay. Listen, I'm so thankful I'm going to spend forever on the new earth with you, my sister, because I got a lot more to talk about. But we got to get to our last question here.

Kristi McClelland: Let's go.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. So I know there's many like me -- you've just whet our appetite to really be able to see Scripture more clearly within its cultural, linguistic, historical, et cetera, context. Okay? And some people may have thought, oh, my goodness, I think I've been reading this through my Western lens and I'm missing -- I'm missing it, I'm missing a lot, and so I want to be able to do this. So, of course, you've written this book, "Rediscovering Israel" -- which will be a great companion, y'all, for this journey. But let's say they don't have the book yet and this podcast ends. Like, how can they literally and figuratively turn the page on how they begin to read Scripture through this new lens?

Kristi McClelland: Such a great question. So there's so many resources out there. Like you said, the "Rediscovering Israel" book. But let me just be -- let me be a Christmas elf and bless your entire community. So here we go, and very quickly.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay.

Kristi McClelland: There are three Bibles I would recommend, that all of the commentary is the Bible in its historical cultural context. Here we go. Number one, the NIV First Century Study Bible; number two, the NIV Cultural Backgrounds Study Bible; and number three, the NIV Archeological Study Bible. All three of those, the maps, the commentary, the book beginnings, all along, those are three Bibles that will greatly enhance your understanding and enjoyment of the best and truest story ever told, the Bible, in its world.

Beyond that, Jennifer, let me just bless the people. I'm going to continue to be a Christmas elf one more time.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, come on.

Kristi McClelland: Two authors that you need to get their books, put barbecue sauce on them and eat them, take them into your bodies and walk around. Number one, Dr. Kenneth Bailey, B-a-i-l-e-y. He was an American who taught Bible in Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, and Israel for 40 years. So he was Western like us, but spent 40 years teaching the Bible in its native space. And so there's one book in particular, if you -- because he's written a bunch, and anything by him. But he wrote a book called "Jesus through Middle Eastern Eyes." Bless yourself and get yourself that book. If you want to be a blessing to others, get it for somebody else.

The other author is a female. I love supporting females. Her name is Lois Tverberg. Let me spell that last name for you because it's interesting. It's T-v-e-r-b-e-r-g. Lois Tverberg. And she is a woman who has studied in Israel and is also seeking to be that bridge bringing it back here. And so, Dr. Kenneth Bailey, Lois Tverberg, those three Bibles, and "Rediscovering Israel" with Harvest house that we just put out in October.

The good news is, Jennifer -- and this is why I love kind of giving this. You know, sometimes when people are introduced to the Bible in its historical cultural context, it's such a new concept for them that they're like, where do I even begin? But I just want to encourage everyone. There are so many faithful biblical scholars and teachers and studiers out there that have been writing books and resources on this for years, so it's out there for you. Be encouraged. A big ol' feast is ready for you to dive in at whatever level you want to. And again, the Bible's not meant to intimidate us. It's the best and truest story ever told, given to us by our Father who sits with us each and every time we open our Bibles.

K.C. Wright: Okay, all those resources she mentioned are all on the Show Notes, all for you at 413podcast.com/315. We'll have links to everything you need right there to help you get on your way to reading the Bible and growing and glowing and experiencing the living, loving God who's passionately in love with you. So let's do as Kristi said, read the Bible to see God, and not ourselves. Hello.

Jennifer Rothschild: In fact, we're also going to have a link on the Show Notes to the other episode where Kristi and I were together. It was real casual. We were sitting in the green room at a conference together and we had a conversation that I think you'll really enjoy.

Also, we will have a link to an episode with Tara Leigh Cobble. You know who she is from the Bible Recap Podcast. We talked about reading the Bible to see God. Okay? So those would be real complementary to what you've just experienced.

K.C. Wright: We've got some good stuff resources for you on The 4:13, and we are just beyond grateful.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yep.

K.C. Wright: All right, you've got a lot to do now, our people. Get to the library or the bookstore or the Show Notes and start reading.

Until next week, love The Book, live The Book. It's the only Book that the author's right with you while you're reading it. You can do all things through Christ who gives you supernatural strength. I can.

Jennifer Rothschild: I can.

Jennifer and K.C.: And you can.

K.C. Wright: And that's a promise.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's a promise, and that's a wrap. Now to inhale my Vicks.

K.C. Wright: Now, listen, when the boys were small, did you put Vicks VapoRub on their chest and on their feet?

Jennifer Rothschild: I did.

K.C. Wright: 'Cause my mama did.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, I did.

K.C. Wright: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: I can't understand why it works. But evidently it works, or at least we think it works, which makes it work.

K.C. Wright: Now, listen, Vicks VapoRub is incredible. But as you get older, you have muscle soreness?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

K.C. Wright: And I'd like to just do a little mention to my favorite balm. It's kind of like Vic's VapoRub, but it's called Tiger Balm.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, I love Tiger Balm.

K.C. Wright: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, same kind of thing.

K.C. Wright: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: I love Tiger Balm.

K.C. Wright: But don't shove that up your nose. No, no.

Jennifer Rothschild: No, don't put it in anywhere except on your skin.

K.C. Wright: That's for your knees --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

K.C. Wright: -- and anywhere your body aches. Yeah, it works.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, we'll make sure we have a link to that also, because I love that too.

K.C. Wright: It comes in a fancy bottle.

Jennifer Rothschild: It does. And it's expensive.

K.C. Wright: It is.