4:13 Podcast: Can I Build Meaningful Friendships in My Busy Life? With Bailey T. Hurley [Episode 227]

Bailey T. Hurley: I think oftentimes we kind of back off or we -- I don't know. You know, things are hard. Or you have to have difficult conversations or you need to serve one another to really maintain a healthy reciprocated friendship. And I think in our society today, friendships are typically defined as what's most convenient for me.

Jennifer Rothschild: Do you struggle to find real friends? If so, this podcast will give you the tools to build lasting friendships through meaningful and intentional practices. Let's face it, the older we get, the less we find ourselves spending time with good friends. Or maybe we find ourselves frustrated with shallow or draining conversations that rarely scratch the surface. Or maybe most painfully of all, maybe we feel like nobody actually wants us. Well, as Christian women, we are called to support each other on the path of friendship. So 4:13ers, author Bailey T. Hurley is going to help us get on that path that will connect us, create a solid foundation for trust, and bind us together in the love of Jesus. Sounds good, right? Well, here we go.

K.C. Wright: Welcome, welcome, welcome to the 4:13 Podcast, where practical encouragement and biblical wisdom set you up to live the "I Can" life, because you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.

Now welcome your host, Jennifer Rothschild.

Jennifer Rothschild: Hello. It's Jennifer here, here to help you be and do more than you even feel capable of as you live this "I Can" life and you do and be all things through Christ's power in you. It's the best way to live, my friends.

We are going to have a great conversation today about friendship. And, gosh, we all know the power of community, but I got to tell you something that I'm noticing. I don't know if this is just the Christian community or it's everywhere, but you cannot gather with friends without a charcuterie board.

K.C. Wright: You are --

Jennifer Rothschild: Am I right?

K.C. Wright: -- so 100% right.

Jennifer Rothschild: I mean, you have to have a charcuterie board.

K.C. Wright: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: And let's just be honest. What in the world? Where did that name even come from, and can you even pronounce it?

K.C. Wright: Alexa?

Jennifer Rothschild: I had to practice. And I'm like, "I feel so dumb."

K.C. Wright: I know.

Jennifer Rothschild: It's like "charcuterie board."

K.C. Wright: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. So anyway -- but I actually am a big fan of them, I got to be honest, because I like eating that way anyway.

K.C. Wright: Right.

Jennifer Rothschild: And it makes everything so pretty. But some people can do such a good job.

K.C. Wright: So let me -- okay, so I've got my -- I got my man hat on.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. Yes, give me your --

K.C. Wright: Okay. So does it have to be a specific board? Can it just be any board?

Jennifer Rothschild: I think you could go get a piece of plywood from the garage.

K.C. Wright: Okay. Thank you.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

K.C. Wright: And then does it have to have certain things --

Jennifer Rothschild: No.

K.C. Wright: -- or you just get creative and do cheese and grapes and little breads?

Jennifer Rothschild: It can be anything. Yeah, anything you want. I think the idea is finger food.

K.C. Wright: Okay.

Jennifer Rothschild: And they really are cool. Actually, I got one. I'll tell you this. Last fall I was at a Fresh Grounded Faith in Philadelphia, and the local conference coordinator, Lori Mason, at the end of the weekend presented me with -- oh, K.C., it's huge. I know our 4:13ers can't see my hands. But it's, like, a huge board, and it was carved with "Philippians 4:13."

K.C. Wright: Oh, my word.

Jennifer Rothschild: I have to show it to you. It's up on my island right now. It's beautiful.

K.C. Wright: Wow.

Jennifer Rothschild: And then you flip it over, and the other side you can use as a cutting board, though I will never let a knife touch it. I mean, it is beautiful.

K.C. Wright: That was so kind.

Jennifer Rothschild: Wasn't that the sweetest? Yeah. So now, like, I have the best charcuterie board in --

K.C. Wright: Charcuterie.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- the United States.

K.C. Wright: I think every time you say "charcuterie," an angel gets its wings.

Listen. But here's the redneck way to have all those treats.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah?

K.C. Wright: Just go to Costco and graze. It's the same thing.

Jennifer Rothschild: You don't even need a board. You just go from person to person and say, "I'd like a sample."

K.C. Wright: I was there yesterday and I had everything from a truffle, to a chip that had so much spice it made my eyes water, to a little sample of some kind of fun fizzy drink. I'm telling you.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's awesome. You were like a mobile charcuterie board right there.

K.C. Wright: I just go there to graze. And that's what a charcuterie -- sounds like a disease or something.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, brother. All right. Well, now, we all know that the next time you have your gathering, you need to have a charcuterie board.

And Bailey T. Hurley, our guest today, she's going to talk a lot about the importance of friendship and how to do it in a very practical and intentional way. So let's introduce Bailey.

K.C. Wright: Bailey T. Hurley is everyone's favorite community cheerleader. She encourages women to pursue a faithful relationship with God so they can build fruitful friendships in their corner of the world. She has written on the topic of friendship and faith for publications like "She Reads Truth," Salvation Army's "Peer Magazine," and "Grit & Virtue." Today, however, she's talking to you about her new book called "Together Is a Beautiful Place." I love that.

Jennifer Rothschild: Isn't that a great title?

K.C. Wright: Someone put that on a charcuterie board.

So here's Jennifer and Bailey. Here we go.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right, Bailey, let's cut right to the heart of this subject. Okay? Why is it often so hard for women to make and then even maintain really good friendships as they're grown-ups, as we're all grown-ups?

Bailey T. Hurley: Yes. I think the biggest thing, especially as we enter into adulthood and we have more roles and responsibilities tugging us in different directions -- I mean, there's a variety of reasons and hurdles that we have to tackle in friendship, but I think one of the biggest things that I've noticed is just prioritizing. I think that women say, I really want deep, authentic friendship, and I want to feel close and connected and, you know, and I think they get an image in their mind of what best friendship looks like, but they don't love the cost that comes with it. So when a friendship asks too much of them, I think oftentimes we kind of back off or we -- I don't know. You know, things are hard or you have to have difficult conversations or you need to serve one another to really maintain a healthy reciprocated friendship.

And I think in our society today, friendships are typically defined as what's most convenient for me, what fits into my schedule, how is it serving me.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Bailey T. Hurley: And so I think that that cost of friendship, especially biblical friendship, which we know is filled with a lot of weaknesses, failures, and I think just a deeper understanding of two imperfect people trying to do friendship together, there has to be that mercy and forgiveness and compassion in servant heartedness, and, like, those things are hard.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

Bailey T. Hurley: Those things are really hard.

I'm a mom of three little kids, and I think that for those who may be listening, and you are running a household and you're managing littles' schedules, or just any children's schedules, honestly, that I think when you get that -- the need of friendship, I do think that it's easier than for women to be like, you know, I'm just -- I got stuff going on at home and I don't have the energy or the time to really put into my friendships. But you're missing out. You're definitely missing out because, you know, you always get what you put into things.

Jennifer Rothschild: Ooh, isn't that the truth. The investment you put in is the return you receive.

But I think you just described well the variety of reasons why it is hard. I mean, if you boil it down, women are busy, friendship is vulnerable. You put those two together and it's easier just to not invest. And I think also there's some lies we believe. In fact, you kind of alluded to one. So what are some lies or unrealistic expectations that women do have about friendship? Like, is it normal, is it realistic for women to have one BFF?

Bailey T. Hurley: Yes, absolutely. Yeah, I think, unfortunately, we come with a lot of expectations when we are entering into friendships, and I believe that can boil down from things other people tell you. I know for me when I -- like, my biggest kind of shock for my friendship journey was leaving high school and going to college. And I had a beautiful God-centered community in high school. It was truly one-of-a-kind experience. And at the same time, I had all of these moms and older women saying, "Oh my goodness, college is where you're going to make your best friends." Like, these are the women that are going to stand next to you at your wedding day, they're going to be the ones that you call when you have your first babies. Like, you think you had friends now; well, just wait. And so I thought, wow, okay. Like, I've had really great friendships, so it's only going to go uphill from here. And I really entered college with this idea that, man, they're going to -- people are going to knock my socks off, I'm just going to have the coolest group of friends and we're going to be together all the time and think the same thoughts and want to do the same things and -- wow, it was just not that way. College was very difficult for me, and I made it more difficult because I was bringing in these expectations.

So I think for women, really maybe taking a moment and pausing and kind of analyzing what are some of the expectations I'm bringing on to my friendships. And when they don't meet those things, you know, I think we get filled with disappointment. Like, oh, that Bible study was not what I thought it was going to be, or this church group was -- you know, it just wasn't what I was expecting. And we quickly kind of turn and walk away and don't give each other second chances. And so, yes, I think the expectations are a big -- just like a block almost to really experiencing the good friendships that the Lord puts right in front of you.

Some other lies that I think really hold us back in friendship -- and I kind of alluded to this a little bit, but it is the lie that friendship is always 50/50. And truly, some days your friendship is going to be 40/60, maybe 20/80. You might be giving more, your friend might be giving less, and then in some seasons it switches. And I think if we just assume that our relationships will be 50/50 at all times, we're going to be met again with that disappointment. They're failing me. Why am I always initiating in this season? Do they even care about me anymore?

But instead -- in my book "Together Is a Beautiful Place," there's a chapter on God's economy of friendship, and it just talks about, you know, basically when you are giving to your friends, you're still going to be receiving the good things that you really want in return. And that might be connection or building trust or laughing. Those are all good things. And sometimes, yeah, it is hard to be the one that is the text initiator, but it's also like you're gaining the benefits from scheduling those fun hangouts or making play date arrangements or getting together with a woman for coffee. And so those are two really quick ones --

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, and those are good.

Bailey T. Hurley: -- when it comes to just, like, lies we're believing.

Because I think, again, with that 50/50, I just -- in my time and with coaching women in friendship, a lot of it always comes back to these small things that they just let me down. But then I like to say, okay, well, let's think about it more. What does that actually mean? And is she really letting you down or is she just in a season that she can't give as much as you can give, and has there been a season where she gave more than you could give to the friendship?

Jennifer Rothschild: You know what I've heard you say in both of those answers you just gave is there is this underlying foundation of humility and a willingness to serve. I do think we think that friendship really is -- there's this insidious expectation that we may not ever really acknowledge, but we do think friendship is to serve us. It's about me. She makes me happy. And what I'm hearing you say is -- you're kind of flipping that upside down. The benefit is that you feel joy, but that's not the purpose. The purpose is humility, servanthood. It's a different paradigm, Bailey, I think, than what a lot of us really go into friendship with.

But then I think of -- like you mentioned, you have little kids at home. I have an amazing daughter-in-law who manages many things with many little people, and I look at her and see how she's forging new friendships. And so I would like you to talk just in a very practical way for the young moms out there who literally -- they are busy. They got to get up at 5:00 a.m. just to have a moment alone, right? How do they fit friendship into their life in a realistic way?

Bailey T. Hurley: Yes. It just takes a little bit more effort, but I think practically, like, look for your windows of opportunity, times when you do have moments kid free or with kids, and really invite people into that. And so for me, it is scheduling play dates. Instead of just going to the museum by myself, I say, okay, who can come with us?

I joked with my husband that my new superpower is basically making sure we don't ever do anything alone, which sounds so silly. But for an example, there is this, like, Christmas concert for small kids in our city, and last year we went by ourselves and we had a great time as a family. But this year I was like -- I texted ten different families we know, and there's six of us -- like, six different families coming to join us. And I'm just thinking, man, this just makes things we're already doing as a family so much more fun.

Or this weekend we're heading to the pumpkin patch, but we told another family, "Hey, this is the time we got our tickets. Would you want to come?" And they're like, "Yeah, we would." So I think just practically inviting people into the things you're already excited about as a family and having them be a part of that.

But the other is really making sure you do get kid-free time. Because as you moms know, it is so hard. It is hard to carry on a fruitful conversation with kids around.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes. Yeah.

Bailey T. Hurley: Like, those little check-ins are great, but every now and then you really do need just that connection piece where it's just the two of you or a group of you. And so my husband and I trade off every Thursday night. And so it's on our calendars where you get to do whatever you want. You don't even have to ask, like, "Hey, will you cover the kids for me doing bedtime?" It's already kind of expected.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's good.

Bailey T. Hurley: And that's something where we feel like we made space in our calendar. But then we really kept that time sacred, where we both felt like our marriage is healthier, our faiths are bigger, and our family is just, like, better off if you are getting time with your community outside of the house.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's a really good word. That's good. That's good for the kids, too --

Bailey T. Hurley: And it's good for the kids.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- to be able to be with the other parent alone. All of it is good.

Bailey T. Hurley: Yes, it is. And so that's something, yeah, we've kept actually since the year we got married, so it's been seven years now. And it's just -- you know how you can add, like, repeats every week on your calendars? That's just been repeating for years.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's great.

Bailey T. Hurley: And we don't always have to take it, but when you know it's there, you can plan ahead and say, Hey, I have my Thursday next week, so what are we doing?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. When I was a young mom, I had two good friends, Catherine and Lori. We met at church, and we literally started cooking together. We would do these meal preps.

Bailey T. Hurley: Oh, that's awesome.

Jennifer Rothschild: And we would go over to Lori's house, and Catherine and I and Lori would be in the kitchen for hours. And we would all cook each other's favorite recipes and do it together, and the kids would play and have a great time. We had such quality time. But the beautiful thing about that was, now, decades later, that planet seeds of true, authentic, lifelong friendships that have grown and blossomed. And it is a beautiful thing. So even if someone doesn't have the bandwidth to go out and have fun, they got to cook, they got to clean.

Bailey T. Hurley: Right.

Jennifer Rothschild: We would even come over and clean each other's houses together.

Bailey T. Hurley: I love that.

Jennifer Rothschild: And it's a way to grow together and even get practical stuff done. Which some people, that's all the bandwidth they have, which is a totally cool thing, too.

Bailey T. Hurley: Absolutely.

Jennifer Rothschild: So here's another thing I want to talk to you about, because I think this is a hard thing, very hard thing. And it can happen without you realizing it, or it can happen like, boom, all at once because of conflict. Okay? So most women at some point in their friendships have been ghosted by a friend. And it's hard. So let's talk about how to handle a friendship breakup. Whether it is one of those that's like a slow fade, or just a big blow up, how do you handle that?

Bailey T. Hurley: Yes. I think some good perspectives going into friend conflict is to treat people the way you want to be treated. So if you're the one that's going to bring up a hard conversation, just think how would I want my friend to speak to me about this and approach me about this, and then kind of follow through with those things.

The second thing to keep in mind is to try to communicate as quickly as possible so you don't leave enough space for more assumptions to be built on top of the original conflict, because then you're going to have to tackle -- like, I think women's tendency to overthink and add to the conversation and add to the conflict in ways that maybe just aren't true, but then when you finally get around to talking about it, you're going to have to work through, I think, a lot of other things.

And so like many, I feel like in marriage -- we talked about this in communication conflict. If you did need space before you had a hard conversation, you might say things like, Hey, I do need time to think and pray about this, but are you free Tuesday at 4:00, and I will call you or I'll come see you and we'll talk it through. So really putting, like, parameters so there's clarity. There's always so much peace and clarity instead of, like you said, ghosting, where it is just -- you never address it and the friendship falls apart. That can be more damaging than just having the hard conversation. I know for myself and for many, there are friendships that may have even ended months or years ago, but they still haunt you because there was never this bookend conversation --

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Bailey T. Hurley: -- that kind of like closed the chapter to that friendship. And that just -- again, it just leaves so many open wounds. So my encouragement is have the conversation, have it as soon as possible. I believe in reconciliation and forgiveness, but that doesn't mean you always have to be best friends again. And so those are just some thoughts around --

Jennifer Rothschild: That's really good.

Bailey T. Hurley: -- friend conflict.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, honesty. And it's hard. It takes courage to be honest, especially if you think you're going to hurt someone or if you feel hurt. But that is the Christ-like way to handle it. And you're right. Otherwise, if there's just ghosting with no resolution, it leaves the person who's been ghosted just questioning, What's wrong with me? What did I do wrong? You know, it's just not a kind -- it's not a kind way to do relationships, so -- but it is hard.

So to those out there who are in a friendship -- and this is the truth, Bailey -- sometimes some friendships demand more than you can give. Just say it. Just say it. Say, Hey, this is not my season. I love you and I want to honor you by being honest. I can't give a lot right now, so see ya.

Bailey T. Hurley: And it's hard. It's hard on both sides. But trust me, it is better. It is overall -- like, it will be better than just not -- than just ignoring their text messages or just putting off getting together.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Bailey T. Hurley: One question that I really like, especially if you're sensing, like, is my friendship falling apart or are we going separate ways, is asking them a few simple questions. And this is it. Asking them, What does friendship mean to you? Like, how would you define that? What does that look like? Like a good friendship. And then second, saying, Where do you see this friendship going in the next couple of years? And I feel like it opens up a dialogue on, Hey, this is what friendship means to me right now. What are they valuing? And if they match, you could say, Oh, my goodness, I had no idea that to you friendship meant having a weekly phone call on top of getting together, you know. Or, I didn't know that friendship to you meant, you know, this or that.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Bailey T. Hurley: And so you can either align or then you have some points to say right now this is what friendship means to me, and I don't see our definitions connecting. And I want you to find friendships that match the things that you're looking for and make you feel like you belong, but I'm not able to give that right now.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. That's good.

Bailey T. Hurley: And then I think even asking, Hey, where do you see this friendship going? Again, it kind of leads down this road of, you know, I don't know, and saying, Yeah, I don't either. I don't know if I see this continuing to grow or snowballing into something more.

But there's always the opposite, too, where if you just are curious and you want to ask your close friends, "Where do you see this friendship going in a couple of years?" that can also really spur you on to maybe commit more or to kind of, like, step up the level of depth into your friendship.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. And to manage expectations. I think that's a -- what I like about that suggestion of the questions, too, is it gives a little bit of objectivity to the process, instead of just all the feelings colliding and getting confusing.

So that leads me to this. Why don't you just give us one or two of your top tips for having great friendships as an adult.

Bailey T. Hurley: That's a wonderful question.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, honesty might be one, because you just really shared having honest conversations.

Bailey T. Hurley: Yeah, some top tips. I think the first tip would be -- to learn to become someone who brings people together. And what I mean by that is I feel like we've lost a little bit of that art of hospitality, where I just truly don't really see my friends, like, hosting a Christmas tea or inviting people over for a dinner party. And I'm not talking fancy things. But I would just say if I looked at my text messages about the invitations we get to be with people, it's very rare. Very few. We are definitely an anomaly, and we're always looking for ways to have people in our home and bring people together.

But that's what I -- I think that's one of my biggest tips, is how can you create rhythms in your calendar, in your budget, with your family or with just yourself, of inviting people to be together. And so it can be for football games, it can be for a TV show, it can be for -- I don't know. It can be for a Saturday morning coffee hangout. There's so many different ways you can do that. But in addition, it allows you to also bring people together who are from different social circles, and giving them an opportunity to build friendship with each other. So even if you don't have time to attend to all of these different relationships, you may create space for other people to connect. And so I think that's just a really beautiful gift, but I also feel like it's a great way for you to stay in touch with people, making sure maybe you have just once a month kind of a rhythm of bringing people together.

Jennifer Rothschild: I love that.

Bailey T. Hurley: Thanks.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, I love it, too, because sometimes there can be a discomfort, especially in early friendships, of just one-on-one. But what you're creating is an opportunity for this natural synergy to occur between women.

Bailey T. Hurley: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: And like most -- when I look back, and even currently, most of my friend groups, there's three of us. There's usually three of us. And it's interesting, they tend to all have the same patterns, you know. We've got the leader, we've got the comedian, we've got the servant. I mean, it's just real interesting, the dynamic.

Bailey T. Hurley: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: So I think what you are speaking of, bringing people together, allows that to occur also. Because we all have different strengths and we all have different needs, and they can be met in community of friends.

Well, this is going to be our last question, Bailey. But what's interesting is you just kind of alluded to it -- okay? -- of this rhythms, and that's what I was going to ask you. So, like, let's say you are coaching somebody right now, so let's be really practical. Give us some really healthy friendship rhythms that we can even start right now so that we can invite healthy friendships into our lives.

Bailey T. Hurley: One thing you could do is take a piece of paper and write down five different names of women that you are either already in a close friendship with, and then maybe some women you have felt like, yeah, I think we could be friends if I just gave some more time and attention to it. So write down five names. And then also write down five different activities that you enjoy or maybe are already on your calendar. Whether it's I enjoy reading books, I enjoy going on walks, I enjoy -- or, you know, I've got this coffee shop close by and they have a great playground close to it. And then kind of look at your calendar and basically text each woman and ask them -- invite them to do one of these few things with you, and then put it on your calendar. So don't think it's weird to ask someone to hang out three weeks in advance, because those three weeks come really quickly.

But kind of just -- instead of -- I think sometimes we all have a lot of acquaintances and you do kind of these one-off hangouts or play dates, and you're not really building momentum in your friendships the way you want to be. And so focusing on five people for a season, even if it's just for three to six months. And those are the five that when you need a prayer request, these are the people you're texting. You are wanting to do dinner with the family, these are the people you're connecting with. If you are just wanting a girl's night -- you're kind of like coming back to the same five over and over because it's constancy. Like, that's what builds trust and growth. And so when you're kind of like spreading yourself out, spreading yourself thin, you're not getting below the surface. And so connecting with the same group of people for a time is really going to build the things that you really want, and hopefully the lasting connection, the meaningful moments, the closeness that we're all, I think, really longing for.

And again, after six months, you know, make another list. And maybe four of the same names pop up, and one of the women just like -- it wasn't her time or it wasn't really reciprocated or it just didn't go the way you thought. That's okay. You know, add a new name. Maybe there's a new gal you met at church and you're like, man, I think this could be really rich and I want to try investing in that.

But that's, I think, just one way for kind of creating a really specific rhythm in just your overall, like, how do I think about friends? How do I make time for friends in my calendar? Do the things you love with the people that you love. That's going to make it a lot easier to create rhythms that work for you. The fun thing about rhythms is it's whatever you like. So if you like talking on the phone in the car, that's a great way to make sure you're checking in on your friends. If you hate talking on the phone, maybe it is inviting people over to cook with you, to meal prep for your family. So I say grab that sheet of paper and give it a try.

Jennifer Rothschild: That was really good and really practical, K.C. You just got immersed in the world of female friendships.

K.C. Wright: Yeah, men, we just grunt and eat together and --

Jennifer Rothschild: And it's not on a charcuterie board.

K.C. Wright: No, no. We're eating bacon and biscuits and pancakes.

But seriously, this conversation was good for me. Because if you aim at nothing, that is what you hit. So even us men, even us guys can make a list and make it happen.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

K.C. Wright: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: Good word.

K.C. Wright: If you want a friend, you have to show yourself friendly and you have to invest in that friendship. I mean, friendships happen at theme parks on a roller coaster, to a tree stand hunting for deer. There you go.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's right. Well, and sometimes we just need to be the friend that we want, you know? This can be a new season for you, our people. Friendships are just so important, and they spawn creativity, they reduce our stress, and they help us grow beyond and outside ourselves.

K.C. Wright: And Bailey's book can help. We're giving one away right now on Jennifer's Instagram. So go to her profile -- it's simply @jennrothchild -- to enter to win. And we can connect you to Jennifer's Insta and Bailey's book, plus a transcript of the entire conversation, by simply logging on to 413podcast.com/227. That's 413podcast.com/227.

Jennifer Rothschild: K.C., I gotta say, I am grateful for my friends. And that includes you, my friend --

K.C. Wright: Ooh, same.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- it really does.

K.C. Wright: Seriously, somebody queue Michael W. Smith's "Friends." (Singing) And a friend is friend forever --

Jennifer Rothschild: Ooh, yes.

K.C. Wright: -- if the Lord's the Lord of them.

Hey, I got a friend in you, and it means much.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. To me too.

K.C. Wright: Remember, no matter where you are in life, friend, you can make friends and keep friends, because you can do all things through Christ who gives you strength. I can.

Jennifer Rothschild: I can.

Jennifer and K.C.: And you can.

K.C. Wright: You can.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes, you can.

K.C. Wright: And a real friend leaves a friendly review now.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, that's a good word. So can you do that, y'all? If you love us, tell us.

K.C. Wright: It helps us reach more people.

Jennifer Rothschild: It does.

K.C. Wright: It's not about us, it's about ministering to one heart at a time. And we can reach more with more reviews. So if you could kindly be a friend and do that. Podcast hugs right now to you.

Jennifer Rothschild: Podcast love right now. Love you. Bye.