4:13 Podcast: Can I Build Up My Faith When My World Is Crumbling? With Michele Cushatt [Episode 254]

Michele Cushatt: And that day I found out I had squamous cell carcinoma of the tongue, cancer of the tongue. Now, I didn't know that even existed. I didn't know you could get cancer in your mouth, like on your tongue. That was so bizarre to me. And on top of that, I was a 39-year-old mom who ran triathlons and half marathons, who ate super healthy. I was not a smoker, had never been a smoker. You know, just didn't make any sense. And nobody could explain it to me.

Jennifer Rothschild: On The 4:13 today, author and Bible teacher Michele Cushatt will give you ten practices to strengthen your confidence in God's power so that you can build a faith that will not crumble when life gets hard. Michele a three-time head and neck cancer survivor, and she knows what it feels like when your world is falling apart. Let's face it, storms are a part of life, and no amount of bootstrapping determination can keep us from experiencing them. But there is hope in your hardship, and a God who is both with you and for you. So let's do this thing.

K.C. Wright: Welcome to the 4:13 Podcast, where practical encouragement and biblical wisdom set you up to live the "I Can" life, because you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.

Now, welcome your host, Jennifer Rothschild.

Jennifer Rothschild: Hey there. That was K.C. Wright, my seeing eye guy, and it's two friends, one topic, and zero stress.

K.C. Wright: Zero stress.

Jennifer Rothschild: I'm just here to help you be and do more than you feel capable of as you're living this "I Can" life of Philippians 4:13. I don't think there is a better example of a woman who lives an "I Can" life than Michele.

K.C. Wright: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: You probably already heard just a little bit at the top end that the head and neck cancer that she has survived -- three times, y'all. Three times. Okay?

K.C. Wright: Oh, my word.

Jennifer Rothschild: And the suffering, significant. But it affected her tongue. I even think that she had to have part of her tongue removed. So you can hear that it impacted her speech a little bit. I got to just say, the tenacity this woman has --

K.C. Wright: Come on.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- she's an inspiration to me.

K.C. Wright: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: She really is. She's written several books and so you need to check all of her stuff out. But especially what we talked about today, that you're going to hear, is so practical because she deals with some of the hard stuff, like the questions that all of us have when the storm rages.

And it made me think, K.C., you know, the disciples in the boat when the storm was raging. And you remember -- if you know the story at all, you know they're freaking out. This is my version. They're freaking out while Jesus is asleep. And so they run down to Jesus in the bottom of the boat and they're like, "Master, do you not care that we are about to die?" I love that phrase. "Do you not care that we are about to die?" Because a couple things are happening there, right? They're assuming they're going to die. And by the way, not every storm means death. It doesn't mean you're going to die just because there's a storm. But that was their assumption.

But they also said, "Do you not care?" And sometimes I think when we experience hard stuff, we assume maybe God doesn't care. And Jesus didn't get up and say -- he didn't rebuke the disciples.

K.C. Wright: Right.

Jennifer Rothschild: He rebuked the storm. What a kind God. Such a kind God. I'm so thankful. And so if you're feeling any kind of storm, or you know somebody who is, I think what you're going to hear from Michele today is going to be very practical, very affirming and comforting and --it was to me, it really was.

K.C. Wright: This is going to be so good. Michele Cushatt speaks internationally to a wide variety of audiences and has published three previous books, including "Undone" and "I Am." A three-time head and neck cancer survivor, Michele is a reluctant expert of trauma, pain, and the deep human need for authentic connection and enduring faith. She and her husband, Troy, share a blended family of six kiddos. They live on eight acres outside of Denver, Colorado.

Today, she and Jennifer are talking about her book "A Faith That Will Not Fail: 10 Practices To Build Up Your Faith When Your World Is Falling Apart." You will love Michele, I promise you this, so let's get going.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, Michele, you have become an expert, like a very reluctant expert, on trauma and pain, unfortunately. I mean, you are a three-time cancer survivor. I think it was head and neck? Anyway --

Michele Cushatt: Yeah, it was.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- that's what I want to ask you about. So let's start right there. Give us a glimpse into this hard part of your story, and how did it impact your faith?

Michele Cushatt: Yeah. I was about 39 years old, actually. It was the Tuesday before Thanksgiving. I had just sent my kids to school before Thanksgiving break. It was their last day. My husband was getting ready to go to work and I got a phone call from my doctor. I had gone to see an ears, nose, throat doctor the week before because I had a tiny little ulcer on the side of my tongue that wouldn't heal. And, you know, it was one of those things where we all have bitten our tongue or we've eaten too many tomatoes, or whatever, and we get those little kind of sores, and I thought that's all it was. And he thought that's all it was too. But he happened to do a biopsy and -- but he told me so many times, he said, "You have nothing to worry about. This is just standard procedure, but I'm sure it's nothing." Until Tuesday morning before Thanksgiving when he called and said, "I'm sorry, Michele, it's not good." And that day I found out I had squamous cell carcinoma of the tongue, cancer of the tongue.

Now, I didn't know that even existed. I didn't know you could get cancer in your mouth, like, on your tongue. That was so bizarre to me. And on top of that, I was a 39-year-old mom who ran triathlons and half marathons, who ate super healthy. I was not a smoker, had never been a smoker. You know, it just didn't make any sense, and nobody could explain it to me. And that initial diagnosis was kind of -- it ended up -- even though it was difficult, ended up being the best-case scenario, cancer caught early, I discovered over the weeks that followed. I had surgery, put cancer on the shelf, never expected to see it again. But it came back two more times, two years later and then about eight months after that

And that third time I got the phone call, there were no guarantees of a cure, there was no bubbly optimistic doctor saying that everything's going to be okay. They basically gave me two weeks to get my affairs in order, after which they put me in the hospital. Did a nine-hour surgery where they removed two-thirds of my tongue, multiple vessels, lymph nodes, my submandibular gland in my neck. Also an incision on my arm from wrist to elbow, another one on my leg, trying to put basically all the pieces of Humpty Dumpty back together again to make it possible for me to function, you know, with the ability to swallow, speak, all of that kind of stuff.

After they gave me almost a week in the hospital and about four weeks to recover from that surgery, they started extreme external radiation and chemotherapy. And without going into details, when you start shooting beams of radiation at the head and neck, at the face, it has a different impact. Again, I won't go into detail to spare all of you who are listening. But by the time all was said and done, I had basically, like, third-degree burns from my nose to my chest, on the inside and the outside of my throat, neck, mouth, everything. I had multiple incisions on every part of my body from all the different skin grafts, all of that. I had a feeding tube for six months. I had a tracheostomy to keep me from choking. My vocal cords were so burned that I couldn't speak for much of that.

And so what complicates all of that is up until that point, I had -- you know, the kind of focus of my life was as a Bible teacher and speaker. I train other communicators. I have been on tour with Women of Faith as their emcee, I did a podcast with a very, very well-known leadership expert. And the one thing that was kind of the core of my identity and my ministry was my voice, and now it was gone.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. So just hearing all that -- like, I knew your story. But hearing it all compressed into that bit of time --

Michele Cushatt: It's a lot, isn't it?

Jennifer Rothschild: -- it's so heavy. It's so heavy.

Michele Cushatt: It's very much so.

Jennifer Rothschild: And so for those of us listening who hear all that, when you can encapsulate it like that, it might make it sound less severe than it really was. You're in your forties, you're a mom. I mean, the severity of the suffering and then --not just physically, but I would think emotionally, spiritually. I mean, that's huge, Michele. So here you are, a believer in Christ, active in ministry. So you know better than anybody that Jesus says if we've got faith --

Michele Cushatt: In this world --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Well, yeah, you --

Michele Cushatt: In this world we will have trouble.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. He says if we have faith of a mustard seed, that we can move mountains. And so I would think that you had faith -- it probably felt tiny -- which was adequate according to Jesus. And I bet you prayed for mountains to move. But the mountain didn't move necessarily, not in the way you thought.

Michele Cushatt: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: So how do you reconcile all of that?

Michele Cushatt: Yeah. That's the question of all questions, isn't it? You just go right for the jugular right there, Jennifer. I love it. I mean, that's really the wrestle -- right? -- is that, you know, when we pray, "God move this mountain," and he says it will be possible for you. "I'll make that happen if you believe and do not doubt." And, boy, I believed. I didn't doubt. Every single time, three diagnoses. And even though this is what we're talking about, day of the cancer diagnosis, that's only the tip of the iceberg of the hard things. Like, I can only spill out part of my story, because, really, if the full weight of the last 20 years were shared, it's really more than what we can bear. It's too much.

So what do we do when we believe and we pray in faith and yet God doesn't deliver? And, you know, that's part of the real conundrum for those of us where we want to hang on to our faith, but it seems like that God is either not real, not good, or he can't be trusted when he doesn't answer that way.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Michele Cushatt: And so, you know, part of the practical journey for me was I had to come back to some basics of what is true. And the basics are -- you know, to begin with, one, we live in a fallen world. That sounds so trite. It's absolutely true. And what we've got to wrestle with is at some point in time, you know, all of us will face death. It's inescapable. That means at some point in time, every single one of us who prays for life are not going to get that answer, because death waits all of us. That's just the reality.

The second truth I had to reconcile with is the fact that I have this faulty assumption that I know best what's needed for the past, present, and the future, and that my amount of knowledge, my amount of comprehension, is absolute. And so I have to wrestle with what if there are things that we don't know.

So, for example, we think we know what is good or bad, that our definitions of that is ultimate and accurate. However, when Jesus was crucified, that was a horrible human tragedy, and the disciples who followed him at that time thought that was the worst thing that could ever happen, and it was actually God's ultimate triumph. So if I use that as kind of a benchmark or a plumb line, is it possible that my sight is limited? My sight of the Kingdom of God and God's purposes and God's reality or what he may be working is limited by my humanity. And if that's the case, ultimately, you know, can I trust him with this?

Jennifer Rothschild: Mmm. Yeah.

Michele Cushatt: Now, that's hard. I mean, we're getting into really deep kind of theology stuff that's hard, and it doesn't mean you stop grieving over it. But the question comes down to can I accept the confines of my humanity and simultaneously accept the lack of confines for God's divinity? And if I can wrestle with that and hold that intention and then trust his heart, then if the crucifixion can actually end up in salvation, then could possibly a cancer diagnosis end up in something that would take my breath away even through the grief? Yeah, I think so.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, I have seen that in your life. And what you're describing here, too, Michele, takes -- how would I put it? -- intellectual humility and spiritual humility, because you basically have just stated that you are not sovereign and God is.

You touched on something also, and I want to deal with it because it's a hard thing. So if God is real and good, which I believe he is, sitting where you are on this side of cancer, what is your response to this question? If God is good, why do bad things happen?

Michele Cushatt: Yeah. Gosh, I love that question. Why do bad things happen? Well, there's like a multi-layer answer to that. Bad things happen because, guess what, we do a lot of bad things. We forget sometimes as humans -- now, I'm going to explain this, because I'm not saying that I did something bad and got cancer. And I'll dig into that in a moment. But we forget in this very sinful world that we live in that we are culpable for some of the breakdown that we experience, that sin is at the root of all of this, that it is broken. Right? And there is no amount of effort that we can do to remedy that brokenness. And some of the bad things happen because we live in a world that is still wrecked with sin, and that's just the nature of it, unfortunately.

The good -- this is going to sound a little bit masochistic, but the good part of that is only things that are broken need saving, and only things that are lost can be saved by a Savior. So the more that we can acknowledge our condition, our dire straits, the more radically incredible is the Gospel, the fact that God saved us. I mean, we can only truly feel stunned by God's goodness when we have first sat in the true state of our dire condition, and some of these bad circumstances help us to do that.

Now, I want to counteract some of what I just said. I've had people come to me and I've had -- as you can imagine -- I'm sure, Jennifer, you've received stuff like this, too, with what you've endured and dealt with. But people who say, "Well, if you just wouldn't have eaten that, cancer wouldn't have come back so many times."

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, gosh.

Michele Cushatt: Right? "If you would have just used these treatments, it wouldn't have come back." If you would have done X, Y, Z -- I had a woman one time at an event that after I spoke and walked to the back of the arena auditorium, she grabbed me and she said, "Aren't you sick of this? If you were really sick of this, you would do something about it," and then she proceeded to try to sell me essential oils. And I know that sounds -- it's kind of funny, but it's not funny, because I know there are people listening right now that are convinced that their suffering is God's punishment.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Michele Cushatt: Okay?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Michele Cushatt: Unfortunately, no, you know, that's not -- there are things that we do that come with natural consequences, but sometimes our suffering is just part of the human condition. That's why Jesus said, as we mentioned a moment ago John 16:33, "In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world." The whole Gospel narrative is about recognizing -- God recognizing that trauma and suffering had wrecked all of us. It started in the Garden of Eden and it hasn't ended since. It was trauma that ripped us apart from perfection with God. And the only way to heal trauma -- and I've spent a lot of time studying this -- is -- the biggest indicator of healing from trauma is the presence of one stable significant other in that person's life. Okay? In other words, relationship is the cure for trauma. That's really what it is, healthy relationship.

So what do you think the incarnation is? God seeing that humanity was wrecked by trauma, bad things had happened, suffering that happened. God mourned it. He grieved it. I love the Exodus story because it says God heard their cries and he was moved by their suffering. He grieved it. And so he said the only way to heal the trauma of the human condition is to send one stable significant other to rescue it, and that was Jesus.

Jennifer Rothschild: Wow. What a beautiful picture, Immanuel, our stable significant other who is utterly trustworthy and empathetic. What a beautiful picture that is, Michele. This is super helpful. And I know that a lot of what you're talking about, you touch on in your book, because you've written this book about a faith that will not fail, and in it you give us ten practices to help build that faith. So I would love to know what those practices are, whether you want to just tick them off quickly or give us some highlights. But I want to know what they are, and then maybe we'll unpack a couple of them.

Michele Cushatt: Yeah, absolutely. So in my process of writing this book, I wanted it to be incredibly practical, because I have -- you know, I have lived through literal, like, hell and back kind of circumstances, and a bunch of trite cliches doesn't cut it when you are in that kind of pain. It just doesn't work. And so what could I offer that really helped me not completely sink under during these years -- not just days, but years of suffering? And so these practices are things that I literally -- that helped me.

And they include things like the practice of lament. We don't spend enough time talking about the fact that as Christians, we not only have permission to grieve, but it's part of worship. That weeping is part of worship. Acknowledging the reality of our condition is part of our worship of a God who kind of pulled us out of it. So the practice of lament.

The practice of humility. I talk a lot in this book about that a faith that will not fail is not about performance. It's not about being super spiritual. It's less about performance and more about posture. And so the practice of humility really puts us into a posture of being able to have a faith that will not fail, the right posture before the person who is the only one that has the power to save us.

The practice of relinquishment. Which I kind of hate that. Every time I say that, I just want to spit nails. The practice of relinquishment, of letting go, of realizing we don't have control.

The practice of perspective, seeing things differently.

The practice of shalom. What does shalom look like? We talk about wanting peace, but shalom is a sense of wholeness and completeness and knowing that we in Christ are already whole and complete, even though there are parts of us that still feel broken.

The practice of forgiveness. The practice of connection, which is all about relationship. And then the practice of waiting.

So that's about eight of the ten. But these are different kinds of practices. When we think of practice, we think of homework. Again, this is not about more doing, it's about a better way of being.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, it sounds like it. And I appreciate that perspective. And I want to circle back to lament. Because I do agree with you, it is often overlooked or avoided because we're afraid of it. We don't like to feel things we can't fix.

Michele Cushatt: Oh, yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: And then you get the confusion of the Bible being full of phrases like, "Rejoice always," and, "Give thanks in all circumstances," and, "Consider it all joy," right? And those are like -- they're truthful statements, but they feel like happy Christian bumper stickers we put on our pain and keep driving. Okay? So how do you reconcile those kind of commands with the invitation to lament?

Michele Cushatt: Yes. Well, one of the verses you mentioned, 1 Thessalonians 5, talks about give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God's will for you, and the rejoice always. It's very important to read that sentence very carefully. It's give thanks in all circumstances, not for all circumstances. We are not called to give thanks for human trafficking. That would be contrary to the heart of God.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right, right.

Michele Cushatt: It's sick, right? We shouldn't be giving thanks for cancer diagnosis. I have a friend right now who's terminal. We don't give thanks for that; we can give thanks in it. There's multiple other things. I have friends who have children who have left and not come back for years and years and years, or marriages that are falling apart. So it's giving thanks in all circumstances, not for, and that is really key because that allows us to both lament and praise at the same time. One thing I wrote in this book is that the praise that springs from the place of your pain is the most beautiful music.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's beautiful.

Michele Cushatt: That praise that speaks from the place of your pain. So I'll give you a little secret, Jennifer. I used to be able to sing. Like, I used to have a great singing voice. I traveled and sang, I did -- I used to play the piano and sing. That was one of my favorite things. My singing voice now is not pretty. And yet when I go to church and I sit in the fourth row from the front on the left side, which is where I always sit, I sing so crazy loud, and I'm sure the people in front of me are so annoyed. But when I do that -- and there are times that my singing is also crying. You know, I'm, like, singing so loud, but I am sad because I know my voice is -- it's painful to sing, it doesn't sound the same. But I know something happens when I choose to praise from the place of that lamenting grief that creates a different kind of music that can't be written any other place.

Jennifer Rothschild: Very convicting and powerful and beautiful, Michele, and I appreciate you --

Michele Cushatt: It's very convicting.

Jennifer Rothschild: It is. I appreciate you sharing that. It reminds me a little of Psalm 13. That's a psalm of lament. And that's how the psalmist begins, "How long, O Lord? Will you forget me forever?" And he goes on and on, and it's all bad news. But then he gets to the end -- like, it's verse 5 or 6 -- and he says, "But I will sing of your unfailing" -- or, "I will trust in your unfailing love. My heart will sing of your salvation, for you have been good to me."

Michele Cushatt: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: And I think the way you phrased it was so beautiful, that it is the most beautiful praise that springs from that very difficult soil of pain. So I'd love to stand next to you in church and sing right along with you really loud and out of tune. I am with you, girl.

Michele Cushatt: I'll bring you some earplugs just in case it doesn't turn out to be quite as lovely as you think.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. All right, let's hit another one, though. Okay? You mentioned perspective. And so a thing for me -- that's an important thing for me, especially an eternal perspective. So talk to us about the power of perspective, how it can be a daily practice and how it builds our faith.

Michele Cushatt: Yes, the practice of perspective. It's a way of can I shift the way I look at this thing? So, for example, I had mentioned that I kind of made my living as a speaker, a communicator. I trained speakers all over the United States and the world to deliver presentations, so it was kind of my area of expertise. So when I lost my speech, my first thought was, I'll never be able to speak again. I mean, I -- you can hear the lisp in my voice. I spit when I talk. I always warn the people in the front rows that, "You might need an umbrella because there is so much spray coming out of my mouth when I try to talk." But I'm like, I can't be a speaker. I was devastated. I was crushed. I'm like, Nobody's going to want to listen to somebody who talks like me. And there were certainly people who did express that, by the way, you know, this wasn't just in my head.

But all of a sudden I said, But what if I'm wrong? What if rather than being the woman who talks funny, I become the woman who has something to say? It's all a matter of perspective.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, yeah.

Michele Cushatt: One of my friends who is also an author speaker, Jill Savage, she was in Florida one time at an event, and she texted me. She was in -- I can't remember where she was. She was in an office, a doctor's office, somewhere, and they were playing the radio, and a little 30-second clip of me came on the radio. And they didn't even mention my name, but she knew it was me because she recognized my voice because I have such a unique voice. Guess what? The thing that I thought disqualified me from ministry has now become the very thing that sets me apart in ministry.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, yeah. Wow, that's a powerful word. Somebody needs to hear that. What you think might be that thing that disqualifies you is really what gives you distinction and what God uses.

Well, and I've just got to say, because I am a speaker, I can imagine -- I mean, as much as I possibly can, I can imagine just the myriad -- what a hit to your identity, to your future, to your esteem, to all of it. And my admiration for you is immense, because what the enemy could have used to take you down, God has used to raise you up. And that's because of your humility. And I also believe because of that word you don't like that starts with an R, relinquishment.

Okay, so let's do this. Let's make this our last question. And obviously, this conversation does not afford to go through all the treasures that are in your book, and that's why I'm so thankful -- I'm going to tell the listeners how to get the book when we're finished with this conversation, because they need it. I need it. But let's stop with this question. This will be our last one. Okay?

Because of that word "relinquishment," letting go -- I'm going to call it spiritual surrender -- okay? -- where you're just saying, "Okay, God, I'm not in control. I surrender this to you." Now, how is that different, Michele? Because I want to make sure we leave our listeners with a very balanced and practical way to deal with this. How is spiritual surrender different from just being passive or just totally giving up completely?

Michele Cushatt: Well, giving up completely, we're still maintaining some kind of emotional control. When we give up, we don't want to feel, we don't want to try, we don't want to be engaged. We basically are disconnecting. And that is still a measure of control. We still want to be in charge of our own lives.

So picture it like you and Jesus are in the car. Giving up is like getting out of the car. You're like, "I'm done, I'm not doing this anymore," and you step out of the car. Surrender is choosing to sit in the passenger's seat and trust that where he takes you is going to be good. And that's tough, I get it, and there are days it would be easier to give -- it feels like it would be easier to give up. And trust me, I've had many. I've lost count of how many days I've been -- I've had those days curled in the fetal position, like, I'm done, I'm done. I've been like Elijah by the river saying, "God, it's too much for me. I wish I wasn't alive. I can't do this anymore. I'm done." And God send -- I love that picture, by the way, because God sends an angel to offer food and water to Elijah, and he says, "The journey is too much for you. Take and eat."

In other words, God acknowledges that there are times that the journey is too much for us. We can't get there on our own. We can't. So relinquishment means that we get to sit in the passenger's seat and let him do the driving. And that we trust, we go with him. We don't jump out of the car, we go with him, and we trust that he will give us the food, the drink, whatever we need on the journey there, and that he will get us where he's promised to take us. He will not leave us behind; he will not let us go. The Promised Land is ahead. He will make sure that we get there.

K.C. Wright: Some of you might feel like Elijah by the river. "I am done." Man, how many people have said that at the end of a day --

Jennifer Rothschild: I am done.

K.C. Wright: -- "I am just done with this day."

Jennifer Rothschild: The journey, it's too much for me.

K.C. Wright: Oh, man. I had a Saturday like that recently. I remember around -- I'm going to bed at 8:00. Like, I am done, right? The journey sometimes it's just too much for you and me. But if that is you, rest. God will bring the food you need, so take and eat.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's a good word, K.C. Good word.

I love Michele. And her book is just so sound and so practical. And obviously, as you heard, she's been there, so she can help you through what you might be dealing with also.

So you can get her book at our Show Notes at 413podcast.com/254, or you can win one. So you know the drill by now. You go to my Instagram, which is @jennrothschild, so you can enter to win. Or if you don't know how to get to Instagram, you can go to my Show Notes at 413podcast.com/254, and that will connect you. Plus you can read a transkipt -- transkipt. Those of us who pronounce words correctly call that a transcript. Anyway, you can read a copy of the transcript there at the Show Notes.

K.C. Wright: Yeah. Hey, this is always, always a precious time when we get to spend it with you. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your listening ear. Thank you for leaving such kind reviews. They blow us away. And always good stuff at the Show Notes. Don't forget about that resource right there at 413podcast.com/254. And always good stuff on The 4:13.

Jennifer Rothschild: Always.

K.C. Wright: Always. All right, my last words based on Michele's wisdom. Sit in the passenger seat; he will drive. Jesus, take the wheel.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

K.C. Wright: But at times recently I've said, "Jesus, I got the will, you take the bills. Hallelujah." Anyway, but just know you can trust him and you can trust the path, because you can do all things through Christ who gives you strength. I can.

Jennifer Rothschild: I can.

Jennifer and K.C.: And you can.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, so you should rewrite that. (Singing) Jesus, take the bills.

K.C. Wright: (Singing) Take them from my hands --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

K.C. Wright: -- because I can't do this on my own.

Let's get Carrie on the podcast.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. She probably sings that slightly better than you.

K.C. Wright: Slightly.

Jennifer Rothschild: Slightly.