4:13 Podcast: Can I Break Up with What Broke Me? With Christian Bevere [Episode 286]

Christian Bevere: I just believed that I couldn't be a woman of God, I couldn't have that healthy marriage, I couldn't be in ministry because I had messed up so much. And the grace message is this, is that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. And it's not that we glorify our mistakes or say that they don't matter, but we see that they don't have power over us. And I want to see women live unashamed despite who they've been, what they've done, because they know they're no longer that person and they no longer serve what those past choices were.

Jennifer Rothschild: It is time to stop letting your past define your future. This podcast is an invitation to liberation, a chance to break up with what has broken you and kept you dogged by shame. According to today's guest, author Christian Bevere, often shame and regret, they just hold us back from where we're called to be. So today you are going to learn to leave your less for more, silent shame's lies, and step into the restored story that God has for you.

So, K.C., what are we waiting for? Let's go.

K.C. Wright: Welcome to the 4.13 Podcast, where practical encouragement and Biblical wisdom set you and I up to live the "I Can" life, because you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you.

Now, welcome your host, my soul sister --

Jennifer Rothschild: Soul sister.

K.C. Wright: -- Jennifer Rothschild.

Jennifer Rothschild: Hello, our friends. Thanks for coming back again. We just appreciate each of you so very much, our 4:13 family. I'm Jennifer, here to help you be and do more than you feel capable of as you're living the "I Can" life of Philippians 4:13. And you just heard the voice of K.C. Wright, my Seeing Eye Guy. Two friends, one topic, and zero stress here in the podcast closet. So we're glad you're here.

We're still making our way through the new year. I'll be honest, I still don't have my word of the year -- oh, my goodness -- which is okay.

K.C. Wright: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: Maybe I'll get it by July.

K.C. Wright: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: But anyway, new year still, you know, we're a couple of months in. But I'm wondering, K.C., are you still working out? Because you were, like, hot and heavy last year. Have you been able to keep it up?

K.C. Wright: Well, you know, my slogan, the banner over my life is, I will not be defeated and I cannot quit.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's right.

K.C. Wright: So I've never loved and hated something so much than CrossFit. I'm still doing it.

Jennifer Rothschild: Good for you.

K.C. Wright: I'm in it to win it. Now, did I walk on the beach last year with the abs that I dreamed of? No.

Jennifer Rothschild: Not yet.

K.C. Wright: No.

Jennifer Rothschild: But there's always this summer.

K.C. Wright: I have a washboard stomach, a washboard stomach, I just have a couple of loads of laundry on top of it.

But anyway, long story short, I did not have the beach bod that I was praying for. However, I was a lot skinnier.

Jennifer Rothschild: Good.

K.C. Wright: And -- oh, this is kind of a -- I don't know what you'll think of this --

Jennifer Rothschild: What?

K.C. Wright: -- but the one year before CrossFit, I had tried to put on all these shorts that I couldn't fit into. This past summer, I fit into every one of them.

Jennifer Rothschild: You go, K.C.

K.C. Wright: But I'm not just working out so I can look better.

Jennifer Rothschild: No.

K.C. Wright: I'm working out so -- I'm fighting all the diseases and getting healthier and all that.

Jennifer Rothschild: Being strong.

K.C. Wright: That's right.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

K.C. Wright: That's right. But I have added something extra into my workout --

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, what?

K.C. Wright: -- for this new year. And it's like everyone's doing it, so I'm like, you know what? I'll do it too. No, just kidding.

Jennifer Rothschild: What?

K.C. Wright: But have you ever heard of these cold baths? Would you be --

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, like an ice bath.

K.C. Wright: An ice bath.

Jennifer Rothschild: You're doing that?

K.C. Wright: I am. I found one online. It was like 100 and some bucks. And it's cold, but you get used to it after a few sessions --

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay.

K.C. Wright: -- and upping your time each session. But the benefits are insane. It's actually called cold therapy.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay.

K.C. Wright: And here are some of the benefits of cold water therapy.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay, you got to tell me about this.

K.C. Wright: And more or less, it sits in my garage, and I get home from CrossFit and I'm drenched. You're just soaked with sweat --

Jennifer Rothschild: Right, right.

K.C. Wright: -- and you just jump in to the bath. It boosts the immune system, it improves blood circulation. You do have a better deep sleep.

Jennifer Rothschild: Really?

K.C. Wright: It boosts energy, it elevates your mood, it prevents and helps depression. It reduces inflammation, it reduces muscle soreness. It improves your mood. Facts. Reduces chronic pain. And, of course, it also helps you practice discipline and resilience.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, yeah, because everything in you wants to jump out.

K.C. Wright: Well, the first three times I hated it. I'm like, this was the dumbest purchase ever. And now you're like, man, I can't wait to get home.

Jennifer Rothschild: So, like, how long do you sit in it?

K.C. Wright: Not long.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. Ooh.

K.C. Wright: Yeah. So --

Jennifer Rothschild: I'm very proud of you, K.C. That is impressive. And y'all, we will have a link to the one that K.C. bought. We will have that on the Show Notes in case you want to torture -- I mean, do that also.

K.C. Wright: But it's severely -- honestly, it boosts your metabolism.

Jennifer Rothschild: Really?

K.C. Wright: And I have noticed a lot of fat burning, too, that's happened in this.

But it's called the Ice Pod Portable Ice Bath. And anyway, it's in my garage, and I jump in it. Sorry for the visual.

Jennifer Rothschild: Listen, I am so impressed. And like I said, we're going to have a link to that particular one. But the whole idea makes me shiver. The whole idea. In the winter, that you would get in an ice bath. But you know what? There are some menopausal women who are like, "Get me that tomorrow."

K.C. Wright: Right. Because now -- of course, I'll never experience menopause --

Jennifer Rothschild: No, no.

K.C. Wright: -- but I heard that menopause is like you're being microwaved on the inside.

Jennifer Rothschild: You are. So to do it inside an ice bath would probably be quite pleasant. I would have enjoyed that.

All right, people, we are going to get to our conversation with Christian Bevere. You may know this, you may not, but she's part of the Bevere family. We've had Lisa on the podcast several times. She is a friend of mine. I love her. And Christian is actually her daughter-in-law. But the woman's got it going on in her own right. Just godly wisdom. She's an author, speaker. You're going to really enjoy this conversation.

K.C. Wright: Christian Bevere is the author of "Break Up With What Broke You." She shares powerful truth and practical application through writing the Sons + Daughters Ministry, online teaching, and in-person events. She's a wife to Arden Bevere and proud mom to Azariah.

Now, settle in and enjoy this incredible, powerful, beautiful conversation between Jennifer and Christian.

Jennifer Rothschild: All right, Christian, I'm so glad we're going to have this conversation, because I love the title of your book, which is called "Break Up With What Broke You." That is so clever and very interesting. So I'm just going to dive right into the deep end with you. Or maybe I should say throw you into the deep end, I don't know. I want to know this. What broke you?

Christian Bevere: Oh, man.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Christian Bevere: We are getting right into it. You know, I'm glad I can swim here.

There's a couple different things. And as I've gone through this almost healing and restoration redemption story with Christ, I've kind of seen that there's more along the way that were breaking points than I even had known to realize. Essentially, if I were to wrap it all up into one statement, I think what broke me was my desire to be loved and not fully receiving God's love. You know, that led me down so many different paths that I don't believe were his intention for me to wander down and caused me to question my worth, caused me to walk into shame and regret and a lot of these topics that I dive into in the book.

And, you know, Jennifer, when I look at it back, I just think, man, if we really have an understanding for how much and in what manner God loves us, I think we would pious up a lot of the breaking points that the enemy sets up along our path.

Jennifer Rothschild: I think you are so right. You know, just even sharing that, you already had what you were seeking. And so isn't that -- what we do in Christ is like a -- it's like the story of Hosea and Gomer. She left what she had to find what she thought she needed, which she already had. And so that's hard to learn to receive the love of God. It's humbling. And we're going to unpack a little more of that in a moment.

But obviously God has redeemed your story. So let's just hit that real quick. What does it mean for God to redeem and even to rewrite your story? Because he is and has rewritten your story.

Christian Bevere: Yes, so much so. And when I think about the definition of redemption, it's to regain possession of in exchange for a payment. And in my life, I so see that God regained possession of the path he intended me to go on, the promises that he gave me even as a young girl. And he took that possession and payment for all of my sins, for all of my mistakes.

You know, we mentioned this earlier, but I think one of the reasons we have a hard time receiving what God has already given to us in a Gomer situation is we just don't believe that we are deserving of it. And on our own, we're not. But because of that exchange of payment, because of Christ going before us, he rights our wrongs and invites us into this outlandish, beautiful form of love that seems so contrary to what we see in our world. So we really do have to re-tune our minds to be able to accept this love that Christ offers us so freely. And for me, he really did redeem the path that I set on.

I mentioned earlier he gave me promises even as a young girl. And I remember dreaming of my future husband, as many of us do when we're young. And, you know, my generation, we are already Pinterest our dream wedding. We think so much about that day, but we don't necessarily get the necessary details like what is the character of the husband I'm going to marry? What are the temptations I'm going to have to be aware of and by-step in order to get to that -- you know, the dream wedding isn't just what it looks like, but it's who you're marrying.

And I had girlfriends around me that probably weren't the best ones to dream with. Like, they would look at me and say, "Oh, you want a virgin husband? You want a Christian husband? You need to lower your standards." Because we're not seeing that. And I think in this generation, what I would ask other young women to do -- and even teenagers -- is be outlandish. If Christ loves us outlandishly, be outlandish in what we expect of him, even if we're not seeing it around us. Like, let's set a new standard. Let's be catalysts for God to do amazing things in our lives and in the lives of those around us.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's so good, Christian. And when you know you are that outlandishly loved, it does give you that opportunity to dream according to his will, to dream big, to dream countercultural. And I love that that redemption, then, has showed up in your marriage. And I will mention -- some people may not know -- that you're part of the Bevere family. What a beautiful legacy of ministry that you have stepped into to continue walking that path. What a beautiful picture.

Now, you did mention that some of your choices may have led you to regret and shame. Okay, so let's just park at shame for a minute. Because there's lots of women, unfortunately, who can relate to the shame you faced for some of your past decisions. All right? So why do you think shame is such a universal common experience for women?

Christian Bevere: Yeah. You know, it actually boils down to what we've even talked about beforehand, and that's this idea of having to deserve love. I like to say that shame is an inability to separate what we've done from who we are. So we get in this, like, snowball effect of thinking I made a mistake, that means I'm a mistake. I made a decision thinking I was searching to be lovable, so I must not be lovable. And we begin to take on an identity from our sin, from our insecurities, from our inadequacies, and really build a picture of that's who we are, when God says, hey, no, I redeem you not because you're deserving, because you've already messed up, but because I've actually made your identity in me. So we have to be able to separate what we've done, what we see around us, and really look to God and say, Who do you say I am? Who are you allowing me even to be?

You know, Jennifer, I just believed that I couldn't be a woman of God, I couldn't have that healthy marriage, I couldn't be in ministry because I had messed up so much. And the grace message is this, is that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. And it's not that we glorify our mistakes or say that they don't matter, but we see that they don't have power over us. And I want to see women live unashamed despite who they've been, what they've done, because they know they're no longer that person and they no longer serve what those past choices were.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's right. And, in fact, God can use those past choices to serve us in that they make us wiser, they make us more empathetic, they make us more humble, they make us more dependent on God. But they are not intended to enslave us. Good word, Christian.

So also it's interesting in your book when writing about shame, you say that shame is not just an emotion, but it is an infestation in our world. So I want you to unpack that. But also, is it an infestation in our churches?

Christian Bevere: Ooh. Wow. Yeah, that's a great question. Yeah, we look at shame -- and oftentimes conviction too, if we are going to mention the church -- as these really feelings of remorse, feelings of inadequacy. But I think they're more than that. I think they're actually supposed to be directions. So you think about making a mistake. Let's say you run your car off the side of the road and you have a flat tire. That's a very real thing. It's not just an emotion you feel, but it's something you have to deal with. And the changing point is, well, what are you going to do after that point? Are you going to keep driving around with a broken-down tire and just like -- you're moving slower, you're damaging your car, right? It's not the best mode of action to go after that mistake or after that incidence.

But if you stop and change the tire, fix the car, I think that's more of the model of conviction, is, you know, what is this repentance moment of being aware of something in our life, whether we've done it ourself, someone's done it to us. You know, it's a very real reality. I think of shame also. It's not even just the things that we've done, but the things that have happened to us. What is our decision past that moment? Are we going to embrace forgiveness for ourselves and forgiveness for others? Are we going to welcome redemption and restoration or are we going to let shame really take over the conversation and just keep that pain with us, keep that baggage almost, if you will? And I think that's really prevalent in our society, and almost to the point where we're seeing today -- you know, we talked about this earlier, that you and my mother-in-law have been a part of ministry for a while. I'm sure you've seen shame be a topic of conversation through different generations. But in my generation, I'm saying almost nothing is shameful. So we're just carrying this hurt and this pain and really an ownership of our identity mixed with our past. It's not supposed to serve us.

So the title even, "Break Up With What Broke You," is this idea of how do we let the toxic tides out of our life. Almost like that bad ex-boyfriend, you know, probably the one your mom warned you about, and she was right.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Christian Bevere: How long do you actually have that relationship? It can be painful, it can be uncomfortable, but it's usually very necessary. And in my journey at least, when I broke up with shame and I stopped letting that narrative control me, I began to see who God created me to be. I began to be more of a vessel to other people, I began to actually love my husband well. And so that's what I want to see for women. Not only for us to feel better, like that emotional side of that question, but even just the purpose behind being free from that life, from that narrative.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's really good. And that image of the car with the flat tire, that's going to stick with me. Because I have done that in a figurative sense, just keep driving down the road with a flat tire. And it slows you down and you're not accurate just in your emotions and your thinking. There's a lot of people who may be doing that right now. But when we stop and fix it, break up with that broken thing, that is such a powerful image. I really appreciate that.

And you're talking too about how shame is just this lie that we believe, because in some ways it feeds our flesh. You know, if we're not accepting God's love, then, of course, we're going to accept the lie of shame.

But you also talk about in your book "Other Lies" -- okay? So you talk about the lies of, like, I'll never be enough, I'll never be smart enough, pretty enough, strong enough, whatever that is. So what is the root of that "not enough" lie? And how can we shift it? You know, how can we shift our thinking from it?

Christian Bevere: Yeah. I found myself really questioning that am I enough in so many areas, whether it was my looks, whether it was my career, my place in my family. And it was this need for perfectionism, which I think is a key derivative of shame, of regret, and just this longing to be seen, to be known, to be desired. And I kept coming up to it, and it never satisfies itself. That's what I think the key takeaway is. If you find yourself asking those questions of -- even on the comparison side of things, am I as pretty as she is? Am I as successful as so and so? When we have these measurements, they're always self-seeking and very limited in our mind of just thinking, I got to get the next fix. It's almost like a dopamine hit, if you think about it, of, well, if I can just be this level of perfection, if I can just be as pretty as this person. Oh, they got their whatever done. I need to do that too. And it's just this constantly increasing measure.

But when we take that back and we really think about it as why are we looking for these external levels of adequacy, of sufficiency? And that's really because there's a question inside of us of who says that I am loved? Like, do I actually have that measure? And sometimes if you come from a broken family, you have had actual real toxic relationships in your life and you haven't had people confide in you the right way and tell you, hey, you are beautiful and you are lovable, it sometimes can be hard to believe that a God that doesn't audibly speak to us is saying the same thing. But when we go to His Word, he says, I have formed you fearfully and wonderfully. I've made you in my image. And as I've studied that -- and actually fully learned to believe it. You know, sometimes we can read something, but it doesn't get from our brain to our heart.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Christian Bevere: Letting it sink in and actually confronting any insecurity, any fear, any desire that has been left untapped and letting the Word of God permeate our hearts can be the most healing thing.

And I wrote a little bit in the chapters about King David. And some people might think, well, why would King David feel that way? He was a king, he had wives, and he had all this attention on him. But even as a young boy, we can see that his father took all of his brothers to meet the prophet to be named king except for him. And there's these instances where he could have easily questioned, Am I enough? Am I successful? Why do I have people coming against me? Why is my family even turning on me? But I think what sticks out to me in his story is that even when he messed up, even when he questioned his worth, even when he had times to doubt, he constantly went back to God and turned to him. And that's where we have all of these beautiful psalms of his heart just crying out to him. And sometimes when we are in the church and we have these questions, it can be, well, just don't think that way or don't have doubt.

I like to say, especially as us women when we are emotional -- I just had a son, and the postpartum phase, I know that hormones are so real.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, yes.

Christian Bevere: When you have those hormonal, emotional moments, just go back to the Word. Just let that permeate your heart and your doubts and see what he will do with the outcry and letting him come into those moments.

Jennifer Rothschild: So good. And everything I hear you say, honestly underlying it, supporting it is that truth that love, the unconditional perfect pursuing love of God, is the only antidote for our shame. And when we receive it, shame can exist with that.

But also in your book, Christian, you talk about the dangers of half-truths. Okay? I thought this was interesting. So give us an example of what a half-truth sounds like, and then tell us how these lies affect our sense of confidence.

Christian Bevere: Yeah. Some people might be thinking, what is a half-truth? Isn't just a lie a lie? And, yes, you're so correct. But if we know anything about the enemy, we know he's like a lion and he likes to twist the truth, he likes to manipulate. We see this in the Garden of Eden with everything that he came to Christ with. What is the Word of God, but he put a dirty little spin on it.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Christian Bevere: And I think we hear this a lot, especially in our culture today and as women, as -- you know, you're beautiful if you do this. Your boyfriend loves you if you will sleep with him. You know, all of these things that are really kind of just caveats. Like, oh, the thing you're looking for is right there if you give up some of your worth, if you take your source of identity from someone other than Christ. And it's just this -- it's almost like a blackmailing if we think about it. The enemy will offer us what we seek and what we desire if we taint something.

And I heard this a long time ago when I was growing up in the church, that the enemy doesn't come to you and tempt you to get you to sin because he just likes you. He does it to get to the heart of Christ. And anytime we exchange something beautiful that God's put within us, when we chose a route that wasn't his intention, it's not even so much that we're taking on the shame or this regret, but that we're getting further away from the heart of God, when his heart is to have us close, to be his sons and daughters and to really be reliant on him.

Jennifer Rothschild: Good word. That's such a good word. I can tell your book is full of rich resource. And I appreciate too the authenticity and humility with which you speak, Christian. I can tell that's what's going to be on every page of the book.

But we're going to get to this last question. And I would just love it if you would leave our audience with one or two, or whatever you feel led, Scriptures that perhaps could really speak to us, or we could meditate on when this podcast ends, that help remind us of the love of God that is this antidote for shame, the hope that we have, the identity we have, wherever you feel led. But I would love for you just to leave us with a Scripture or two.

Christian Bevere: Yeah. And thank you so much for having this conversation. I really hope it meets people where they are and inspires them to where they're going.

One of the key verses, actually, that led me to writing this book and was a key point throughout was Isaiah 61:7. And it says, "Instead of your shame, there should be a double portion." And that is something I so believe in because I've experienced it. Of coming to a moment -- I remember I was driving, I'm at a red light, and just thinking back on those past moments. You know the ones where you're like, Why did I do that? Why did I do that? Who was that person? That's not me now. And being free from those past circumstances, but still just carrying that weight and that regret and that shame and thinking, God, why is it still following me? Why did I choose that? Especially if you were going to leave me here, why did I go down those paths? And him just reminding me, you know double portion. You know how good I am because I love you, because I care for you, because I will carry you in and be beside you throughout your whole life. But you also know how far I'll go to redeem my beloved, to go after the one who is lost. And I just let that be a banner.

Anytime that something comes and tries to rob my peace and tries to make me feel ashamed of who I was, I just remember I'm no longer that person, because I know that God went so far to redeem me, to carry me back and to cover me. And so that's Isaiah 61.

And then Lamentations 2:14 has been one that's been interesting for me. And it's not as much as a fluffy, feel-good verse, but it's talking about how at that time there were these false prophets that were just almost fluffing up people. And we talked about those half-truths. I think this is what we're seeing a little bit right now, is these pretty statements of just be who you are, you know, you are loved, you are good enough. But Lamentations 2:14 says, "Your prophets have seen for you false and deceptive visions. They have not exposed your inequity to restore your fortunes."

Writing "Break Up With What Broke You" is not really fun, because in the first chapter I have to say, hey, guys, we're broken people, and I know that's not something we want to hear. But we say it to identify our weak spots, to identify what's hurt us so we can restore our fortunes, so we can redeem our story, so God can rewrite the narrative.

And I just want to champion anyone that has felt -- even if it's just a smidge of shame, of comparison, of anxiety, addressing the root and uprooting it will actually allow you to flourish more. And if my testimony is anything, if writing this book is anything, it's just an example of, you know, if we're willing to grow, if we're willing to come to God and just embrace this easy yoke and say, God, I've messed up. I've been broken, I've allowed these things to come on me. Will you redeem me and wash me clean? Have that purifying moment. Because I know I'm yours, because I know you love me and I want to walk in your purpose for me. He's so willing and gracious to do that very thing.

K.C. Wright: Let me read Lamentations 2:14 again. "Your prophets have seen for you worthless and deceptive visions and they have not exposed your wrongdoing so as to restore you from captivity." Wow.

Jennifer Rothschild: Powerful.

K.C. Wright: I thought that was really good that Christian referred to that verse, because the principle is so good. God reveals our sin to restore us. It's okay to acknowledge that we are truly broken people. And when we admit that, we are ready, then, to be restored.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah. As Christian said, just come to Jesus. Bring him your brokenness, because he will redeem and restore and reclaim and all those things. He'll remind you of who you are.

K.C. Wright: I love her heart --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, me too.

K.C. Wright: -- I really do. Actually, I love the whole family.

Jennifer Rothschild: I know. Agree.

K.C. Wright: John Bevere's book, "The Bait of Satan," a must-have for anyone. But you can get her book at the Show Notes right now at 413podcast.com/286.

All right, our 4:13 people, we love you and we mean it. Feel the podcast hug right now. All right? Thanks for your great reviews and being a part of our 4:13 family. We love you. And until next week, you can break up with what broke you.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes, you can.

K.C. Wright: All right? You can leave shame behind, because you can do all things through Christ who gives you strength. I know I can.

Jennifer Rothschild: I can.

Jennifer and K.C.: And you can.

K.C. Wright: You want another translation of Philippians?

Jennifer Rothschild: I was literally going to ask you if you had any more, because a few weeks ago you gave us The Message. What else you got?

K.C. Wright: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: What else you got, K.C.?

K.C. Wright: I've got another translation that is The Passion Translation --

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, yeah.

K.C. Wright: -- of our verse.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay. What is it?

K.C. Wright: "I find that the strength of Christ's explosive power infuses me to conquer every difficulty." Come on now.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's even without an ice bath. That's like a spiritual ice bath.

K.C. Wright: That's even without an ice cream.

Jennifer Rothschild: I love it. I don't know, but you could have it with ice cream. That would work.

K.C. Wright: That's great.