4:13 Podcast: Can I Accept That God Loves This Hot Mess? With Jo Dee Messina [Part 1] [Episode 159]

Jo Dee Messina: I had all that and I remember standing in Texas Stadium, 65,000 people. The roar was so loud, your insides rattled. The stage rattled. This is before the music even started, just the applause. And I remember staring at that sea of people and thinking, I'm still ugly, I'm still fat, I'm still not good and I don't even deserve to be here. I'm still empty. I have all of this. Where is the completion?

Jennifer Rothschild: Singer-songwriter Jo Dee Messina took country music by storm with her breakout hit "Heads Carolina Tails California," and now she's going to take you backstage and she'll take you into her heart. This conversation was so rich and so deep that I broke it in half so that you can take it all in. So this first episode, Jo Dee's going to share her story of growing up in Boston as a latchkey kid, getting into country music, grappling with the longing for more, and finding that longing was met in Christ. It is a beautiful story told by one of the most passionate women you will ever hear. So put on your cowboy boots or some Jo Dee Messina on the 4:13.

K.C. Wright: Welcome to the 4:13 Podcast, where practical encouragement and Biblical wisdom set you up to live the "I Can" life, because you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you. Now, here she is, Jennifer Rothschild.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, hello, our people. We are so excited you're here. We're always happy you're here, but I got to tell you, today's episode, and next week's, they got a little bit of something special to them, like the sprinkles on the cupcake. It's going to be a good episode today. And if you're new to us, my name is Jennifer. I'm just here to help you be and do more than you feel capable of as you live this 4:13 life. Because it is true, Christ in you gives you all the power you need to do all he has called you to do, be all he has created you to be. And you just heard from my seeing eye guy. That was K.C. Wright. And it is just two friends, one topic, and --

Jennifer and K.C.: -- zero stress

Jennifer Rothschild: So if you're needing zero stress today, you are in the right place. I'm telling you, I love this woman --

K.C. Wright: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- Jo Dee Messina. I loved her music. After talking to her, I have such a crush on her in all the best ways. I love her. She is so full of passion. She is so full of energy. Though I gotta tell you, K.C., when I had this conversation with her, it was like I was trying to set up a lawn chair in the middle of a tornado. Okay? Oh, my gosh, you just get caught up. You just gotta go with it.

K.C. Wright: Right.

Jennifer Rothschild: So next week when you hear from her, you're going to hear the second part of this conversation. But big news, Jo Dee Messina is going to be a guest at Fresh Grounded Faith in Springfield, Missouri, with me on November 5th and 6th of 2021, so that's coming up. And I don't want you to miss it. Not just her, though. Nicole Mullen, she's going to be with us, too.

K.C. Wright: Wow.

Jennifer Rothschild: I'm telling you, it's going to be power packed.

K.C. Wright: I got chills.

Jennifer Rothschild: So if you want to come -- I know -- we'll save you a seat. K.C. will be there, I'll be there. If you want to learn more about it, you can go to freshgroundedfaith.com. I'll, of course, have a link at the show notes at 413podcast.com/159. It's going to be good.

K.C. Wright: Jo Dee Messina and Nicole C. Mullen and Jennifer Rothchild under one roof.

Jennifer Rothschild: Watch out world.

K.C. Wright: Wow. Jo Dee Messina is one of my favorite singers. Have you heard her version of "Reckless Love"?

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh.

K.C. Wright: Well, you need to, okay?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, you do.

K.C. Wright: So hop on the old YouTube after the podcast. Ask your smart speaker. I won't say her name out loud to play it. Anyway --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, because she will start playing it.

K.C. Wright: Right. You know Jo Dee, but let me tell you some cool facts about God's girl Jo Dee Messina. Following the success of her debut, Jo Dee posted nine number one hits, 16 Top 40 songs, sold over 5 million albums, and was honored by the American Country Music Association, the Country Music Association, and the Grammy Awards. She was the first female in country music history to celebrate three consecutive multi-week chart topping songs. So this relatable woman, friend, speaker, author, and incredibly gifted singer songwriter is fueled by her faith in Jesus Christ. Jo Dee pours her heart and her soul into everything she does, including this very amazing conversation. Are you ready for this?

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, yeah.

K.C. Wright: So 4:13ers here's Jo Dee Messina.

Jennifer Rothschild: So, Jo Dee, I am just thrilled that we get to hear from you today and have this conversation. You're my sister, I can just tell, and so I wanted just a little bit about where you grew up. Okay, you grew up in the Northeast, I know that.

Jo Dee Messina: Yes.

Jennifer Rothschild: I want to know where you grew up. And because it's the Northeast, I don't typically think of country music being the thing there, so also tell us when, you know, country music kind of caught your heart.

Jo Dee Messina: Oh, Northeast, I grew up outside of Boston, maybe 30 miles outside of Boston, in the small town of Holliston, Massachusetts, and the whole way of living is different up there. It's very blue collar, very hardcore, ruthless sports fans. And I heard country music when I was about 13 years old, and it was -- told the story of my life, you know. It's like I would listen to a song and be like, oh, man, they get me, you know, they get my heartache, they get -- you know, 13, girl, look out. That's a hot wreck right there. So, you know, country music understood me, and it's where my heart was and I just gravitated towards it. It's all I -- I performed. I went down to Nashville after I graduated high school and sought after a record deal. I didn't really think I was great at singing. And I'm not a great singer, I just love to do it. And so I didn't really have any other desire.

Jennifer Rothschild: So singing is just really where you found your place in life. So I'm curious, growing up did you have any relationship with the church, with faith, with Christ? Did your family have a faith community?

Jo Dee Messina: So my mom worked a lot. She is 100 percent Irish. She was raised in the Catholic Church, went to parochial schools or whatever. By the time I was born -- I'm the youngest of four. My parents had divorced when I was five and so I knew -- I'd see pictures of when they took me to church before my dad left, but -- or before they separated. I'm sorry. Sorry, Dad. He's like, that's my little girl. But before that divorce happened. And so from that point on, my sister, who is ten years older than me, she would take me to -- she went to Assemblies of God Church, or she went to a Baptist Church. Sometimes I'd go participate in, like, youth groups or Bible studies or things like that here and there. There was nothing consistent. There was nothing -- my mother would, you know, say, "You got to talk to the Lord, you got" -- you know, things like that in reference. But a lot of my time was spent, you know, as a latchkey kid spent by myself, spent on the streets, you know, just learning how to live life here on this planet. And so was there? I do have the stories. I do remember getting that little book where -- you know, it was green, it was red, it was white, it was black, different pages are a different color.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Jo Dee Messina: So I have the background of God, here's God, but I didn't ever -- I never had a relationship with him. You know, I celebrated Easter and Christmas and that meant I was a believer.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right, right. It was just one of the other aspects of your life, but it wasn't really your life. I get that. And so it's interesting, you kind of shared this backstage, before the stage, pre-fame picture of Jo Dee Messina.

Jo Dee Messina: Lord.

Jennifer Rothschild: So you said you went to Nashville after high school, I think you said. So just kind of give us a picture. What happened to put you on the stage, on a record label, on the radio?

Jo Dee Messina: Oh, man.

Jennifer Rothschild: You know, you are in the hearts of country music fans and in country music history. So how did you go from being a latchkey kid who liked country music to this place?

Jo Dee Messina: Well, it's all I did, you know. I sang. Music was my company, it was my friend. It was my identity, it was who I was. So I went to Nashville. And I spent the first couple years working to just, you know, keep a roof over my head. Didn't do music at all, and then I started -- somebody's like, "Hey, go perform at this talent contest. If you win, you get $500 and a chance to perform on a radio show." Well, for me, I needed the money, so I was like, "Okay, I'll keep trying," you know. And so I went every week for six weeks and kept winning and winning and winning. And then I won the $500 and I was like, yeah, I get to pay rent. And then when I performed on the radio show, a producer heard me. It was Byron Gallimore. Byron Gallimore was producing a kid named Tim McGraw. When McGraw had success, they were like, okay, we're going to bring you over to the label and see if they'll sign you. So I didn't do tons of networking, I was just surviving. And then the one person that I met ended up being the one that helped me climb up the ladder and get a deal and all that other stuff, so...

Jennifer Rothschild: It's interesting, you did it for the love of music, not for a goal of fame. And --

Jo Dee Messina: Well, you know --

Jennifer Rothschild: -- that's an inspiring thought.

Jo Dee Messina: I have to be honest and say it was both.

Jennifer Rothschild: Okay.

Jo Dee Messina: Because I remember being a little girl, and I would say --we're talking a little, little girl, like seven, eight, nine -- I want to become famous so that I can save the world.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, really?

Jo Dee Messina: And then I became famous and I can't save anybody. So --

Jennifer Rothschild: No, but God --

Jo Dee Messina: -- that's what I learned.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Jo Dee Messina: I mean, that was kind of my thing. I didn't know what fame was. It isn't what it is today, it was --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Jo Dee Messina: I thought it was reality. It's not. And it's all portrayal and marketing and how you paint the story and -- but, you know, all of that I didn't know. I just thought once I become famous and once I have money and once I have the ... then I'm all set.

Jennifer Rothschild: Interesting. And do you still believe that's the case?

Jo Dee Messina: Oh, I know that's not the case.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right, right. Yeah. It's an illusion, though. It's a very tempting illusion.

Jo Dee Messina: It is a tempting illusion. I mean, some of the -- I mean, you got to look at -- I grew up with Michael Jackson. And I love Michael Jackson. I know he's not country music, but -- I mean, he's all over the place, and I love that. But he was one of the most -- like, he spent the most time in solitude.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Jo Dee Messina: He spent so much time alone that the very fame that he sought after is what isolated him. And so it's -- you know, it's -- you know. It's not what you think. And please do not think -- please do not think for a moment that I am not grateful for every day in my life, for everything. But, you know, I said earlier singing and music is who I am. That's a lie.

Jennifer Rothschild: Then who are you?

Jo Dee Messina: And I came to learn that. Well, I am a daughter of the King Most High. I am the child of Christ. I am the child of God. I am -- like, my fulfillment in who I am is found in Him. And I know that's really hard for someone who's listening that's going, what in the world is she saying? But I had all that. I had everything, and I still do. I still go out and I perform. It's a different -- I look through different eyes now. But back then it was it has to be number one and we have to be on top and we have -- and if it is not of the Lord, it is going to take endless amounts of work for us to sustain it. If you're starting a church, if you're starting a business, if you're starting a career, if you're -- whatever it is, if it's not of the Lord, it's going to be huge amounts of work. And it was huge amounts of work for me to sustain that and to create that. But it also was not once I had it -- remember? Go back to the beginning of my story. I was a little girl. Once I became famous, once I became rich, once I became -- and I don't mean that in an arrogant way at all. Once I had money to pay for bills, once I could go to the store and buy whatever you want -- I mean, I used to always go to the store and see things and go, one day --

Jennifer Rothschild: Wow. Yeah.

Jo Dee Messina: -- I'm going to buy that. And when it was possible, I would walk to the store and be like, I don't even want that. It was the not having that made you want it. And so I had all that and I remember standing in Texas Stadium, 65,000 people. The roar was so loud, your insides rattled. The stage rattled. This is before the music even started, just the applause. And I remember staring at that sea of people and thinking, I'm still ugly. I'm still fat, I'm still not good and I don't even deserve to be here. I'm still empty. I have all of this. Where is the completion?

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, what I think is beautiful about what you're sharing is God has inserted this longing, and it's this longing that's in us that can only be satisfied by him. So when you attain, when you receive, when you've achieved and all those wonderful things, which do have fun and happiness and joy associated with them, but they're not supposed to be the completion, like you said, the ultimate satisfaction. And so I think sometimes it's okay then to live with that longing a little bit because it leads you to Jesus. And so I kind of want to get to that place in your story, Jo Dee. And I'm not really sure how this all happened, but let me ask you a couple of questions and hopefully you can lead into how you really came to know Christ. Not just know about him, but to know him. Okay?

Jo Dee Messina: Okay.

Jennifer Rothschild: So I want to start with cancer. I think you were diagnosed with cancer in, like, 2017-ish --

Jo Dee Messina: Yeah.

Jennifer Rothschild: -- and everything went just south financially for you. So give us a glimpse of this season, what it did to your soul, did you know Christ at the time. Just kind of take us there.

Jo Dee Messina: My life was my career, and my successes was my identity. My strength and my foundation came from my mother. My mother was there every step of the way. She was my best friend. She was always -- I could always rely on her. She'd always bail me -- my mother was my rock. She was my foundation. So I had my mother, which is my rock and my foundation; I had my career, which was extremely successful -- very grateful for that -- and that was my identity; but yet something was missing. So I had my marriage to complete that perfect picture. So I want to say 2014 -- might have been '13. I got to figure this out. Sorry.

Jennifer Rothschild: No, that's okay.

Jo Dee Messina: But anyways, my mother had heart surgery. I was touring, I was on the road. My mother had heart surgery and did not wake up the same woman. She had every type of complication. She slept for two weeks, she had carbon dioxide on her brain. We had to decide if we were going to get the fluid out of her lungs while she was unconscious, so we had to sign papers and give consent. Then we had to -- you know, she wasn't waking up. Do we want to use the BiPAP to try to get oxygen into her body? You know, she's an anomaly she's an anomaly, you know, we've never seen this happen before. Okay, so there's my foundation cracking, gone, removed. My career was then at a standstill. I was trying to get music released by the label. They didn't want to release it because it didn't sound like everything else that was out there. They didn't have a quote/unquote known hit, so everything was being shelfed. Everything that was recorded was being put on a shelf, released without promotion. It was utter failure coming from number one, number one, number one, number one. So my career, my identity, was then -- you got to track with this now. My identity was being blurred.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes.

Jo Dee Messina: Then my marriage was in the midst of utter turmoil, chaos. It was falling apart. It was just a horrific situation to be in. I had little boys that were one and four, and I'm trying to keep it all together under my own power, my own doing, my own control, making this happen, acting this way, filling out -- doing, doing, doing, doing, doing. One day I'm on my front porch and I look at my husband and I say, "Help me." Now, I'd never asked for help, so I was very intentional with the words, "I need help." I need something to take all of this weight off of me. And my words were, I cannot make another life-and-death decision on behalf of my mother. I cannot do that any longer. I can't stand the weight of this organization and trying to keep it afloat financially, keep everyone paid, keep everybody -- all by myself. And I can't bear the situation that our marriage is in. I can't fix it, I can't make -- I need help and I am exhausted. And if I don't wake up for 50 years, I'm happy with that, because I was exhausted.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Jo Dee Messina: Now, take a little side note. I was changing my child, changing my mother, changing -- because my babies were one and four, so I was changing the one-year-old, and I'm taking care of my mom, I'm doing -- and I remember standing in my living room and I said, "No one would ever imagine that every day I spend covered in poop." And only moms can appreciate that. And everyone's cringing going, Did she just say that with people? It's the God's honest truth.

Jennifer Rothschild: Well, you're keeping it real. That's just real life, real life.

Jo Dee Messina: Right? And so I was like, "Aah." So I said to my husband, "I need help. Help me." And he walked by me with the most blank stare and went back into the house, and there I was alone on the porch at the absolute end of myself. And in my spirit -- I was not at a church. I wasn't at an altar, I wasn't at a revival, I wasn't at a concert, a Christian concert. I wasn't even crying out to God, God help me. I was on my front porch, and in the core of who I was sensed the words, "No. She's mine." And I knew like I knew, like I knew, like I knew that was Jesus. And I happened to live next door to a guy named Steve Green and his wife, Mary Jean Green.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Jo Dee Messina: Well, for those of you who don't know, Steve Green is like -- the Christian world was built on that name. You know what I mean?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes. Yes.

Jo Dee Messina: My kids grew up with their music, and my nanny grew up -- well, back in the day when I had, you know, help when they were babies -- she listened to his music her whole life. I mean, this is a guy -- if anyone wants to know about Jesus, he lived right next door. So I went and knocked on his door and knocked on his door and I said, "Mary Jean, tell me about Jesus. Tell me who he is." 'Cause I knew of Jesus, I knew the stories, you know, Noah's ark and all this -- you know, the Jew's on the cross and he rose again from the dead, died for our sins, but that man I didn't know. You know, I'm not that bad of a person, so I don't know, maybe he died for my sins, maybe he didn't. I knew the stories, but I didn't know him. But I knew in that moment. I'm like, "That was Jesus Christ."

Jennifer Rothschild: Wow.

Jo Dee Messina: That was Jesus and I need to know more. And ever since that moment, my life has been a quest of him and following him. And so they explained to me, you know, and I had to -- everything -- 'cause since I was a child, I had to figure it out in my brain. How am I going to pay the bills? How am I going to make my career work? How am I going to promote this? How am I going to write this? How am I going to get in with this songwriter? How am I going to get to this record label? How am I going to get on this TV show? How am I -- everything was intellectually figured out. So I had to intellectually figure out who Jesus was. What does this mean, he became sin for us? So poor Mary Jean Green. I'm like, "When did he become sin for us?" She's like, "Well, on the cross." I was like, "When? Like, "When was the minute? Was there a minute? What was the very instant?" And poor Mary Jean, she knew, and she could answer every question that I had, and then it was only the Holy Spirit or only the Spirit of the Lord that was just like ... vhooo [sound effect]. When she told me that -- she told me the story of the high priests, that only they could go beyond the --

Jennifer Rothschild: The veil?

Jo Dee Messina: -- the veil. Right. And that sometimes they had to tie things to their ankle in case they didn't come out, and da, da, da. A huge thing. And then she talked about the crucifixion and all that went on, and everything -- I mean, this is a long story. And she got to, "and then the veil was torn from top" -- and before she could say, "to bottom, " I went, "So we have a way." Just started crying. And so from that moment on, my quest has been for him. And you had mentioned cancer. I wasn't diagnosed until three years after I met the Lord. It's like he knew.

Jennifer Rothschild: Oh, okay.

Jo Dee Messina: He knew. So yes. So he -- one of the first things that I just -- this impression in my spirit over and over again -- not a voice in my head, but just -- was this impression in my spirit that was like, I love you. I love you, I love you, I love you. All the time. And I was just like -- to the point where I said out loud to no one -- I mean to him, but there was no one around. And I was like, Why do you keep saying that? And it was like, Because you need to know. If you fast forward three years, that marriage fell apart. And, you know, there's the failure/success thing that, you know, I got to succeed, I got to be perfect, I got to do right. I had a marriage that failed. Oh, my gosh, I'm a loser, I'm a failure, I'm a -- you know what I mean? So I had to struggle with that. And then seven weeks after that filing, I was diagnosed with cancer.

Jennifer Rothschild: Girl.

Jo Dee Messina: And so the -- but it isn't. That's the thing. It isn't -- I don't want you to look at me and go, oh, my gosh, that is just so horrible for you. Because it was like such a stepping stone in -- I had to wrestle with.

Jennifer Rothschild: Sure.

Jo Dee Messina: I mean, there was a point I was in my bathroom. I had my diagnosis. I knew what they were going to do to try to treat this, I knew -- you know, I'd known people dealing with the same situation at the same time and the outcome was not what we would want. And I had go three years into my relationship with Jesus and say, do you believe all that you say you believe, that God is in control?

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

Jo Dee Messina: Not just a few of your children. Do you believe that God is good? Do you believe that he loves you? Do you believe that he loves your children and they are so precious? Whether you are on this face of the earth or you're sitting in heaven, that they will be okay. So I had to come -- that's the struggle --

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah, it is.

Jo Dee Messina: -- of that whole thing. And I had to lay it down. I had to lay it down and lay it down and lay it down.

Jennifer Rothschild: That's a good place to be, because it --

Jo Dee Messina: I think we're always going to be there.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes. I agree.

Jo Dee Messina: And those -- and I want to say this because Jesus never promised, come to me, accept me, and life is going to be good.

Jennifer Rothschild: Right.

Jo Dee Messina: He didn't promise that. And when he speaks of abundance, it doesn't necessarily mean I'm going to have a big house and a fancy car and all this and, yeah, let's just bring it to me because that's abundance. No. No, no, no, no. That's not -- that's a worldly look at abundance. If you sit in the Spirit and you read that, it could be an abundance of patience, it could be an abundance of his time. So anyways, it's a long journey.

K.C. Wright: Man, she's the real deal.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yeah.

K.C. Wright: So legit. I cannot wait to hear her at Fresh Grounded Faith in November. And I'm really looking forward to next week. If you haven't followed or subscribed to the podcast, do it right now --

Jennifer Rothschild: Now.

K.C. Wright: -- so you will know when Jo Dee's next episode drops in your ears. Or you can also get an email from Jennifer every Friday that'll take you just straight there.

Jennifer Rothschild: Yes, you can. It's called Java with Jennifer. You know, K.C. and I have coffee when we're here in the podcast closet. Well, you can have coffee with me every Friday on Java with Jennifer. It's just once a week, and it has encouragement for your day, which includes a link to the podcast and to the show notes. So it's super easy. So we'll have a link to that on the show notes at 413podcast.com/159. And next week I'm talking with Jo Dee about some of her songs, the story behind them. And she even gets real honest about her very best piece of advice. You do not want to miss it, my friend. So tell your country music fans to hang out with us, too, because it's going to be so good. So until next week, remember that whatever you face, however you feel, you can do all things through Christ who gives you strength. I can.

K.C. Wright: I can.

Jennifer and K.C.: And you can.

K.C. Wright: And I got to be honest with you.

Jennifer Rothschild: You got a crush on Jo Dee too? Sorry.

K.C. Wright: I love Jo Dee. But my favorite thing when I walk in here, I will hear Jennifer saying, "Hey, K.C., have you had coffee yet?" What she doesn't know is I on purpose don't drink coffee at my house so I can have Jennifer's coffee. And this cinnamon latte thing right now that you made me --

Jennifer Rothschild: Uh-huh. It's good.

K.C. Wright: Woohoo hoo hoo.

Jennifer Rothschild: It's good.

K.C. Wright: Jehava. Jehovah java. We love it.